#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Supersnow845]

I actually don’t hate the soft conflict that recitation has with manifestation or accession because if it didn’t have that it would basically be reduced to a pseudo spreadlo amplifier like protraction is

I despise everything else about seraphism feeling like it was designed as a horrible get out of jail free card for people who misplanned SCH (even though that’s SCH’s entire point) but do think the soft conflict with recitation was actually well thought out for the purpose of counteracting how the average SCH main would use it

I’m 99.9% sure it’s an accident and they simply forgot to code on recitation affecting those actions but as it stands i hope they don’t change that effect

[TKMXIV]

I still want to know what the team was thinking when they came out with Seraphism.

Because I lost the drive to play this game much, I still haven't leveled everything yet. I forgot Seraphism is a thing.
Good thing I gave up playing Hrothgar because like reaper it sucks having your tail cut off. It's worse for Veira no way their ears could be hidden.
Unless I'm wrong and Viera do get to keep their ears with Seraphism. I haven't seen the skill ever after Dawntrail's launch.

[Kohashi]

Doing a run where you have two of the same healer would be quite the meme. But I have seen logs for such runs uploaded, so clearly some people try to take on the challenge. It is quite undisputable IMO, that if you were to try for whatever reason, you'd have far more success/be able to clear far more, with less overgearing required, with 2 ASTS than you would with 2 WHMs. Being able to rotate between 4 total CU uses per 2mins, plus having 40s of uptime on Neutral Sect, and 2 Sun Signs between them, means that AST simply has far more versatility in how it mitigates. And that is the crux of WHM's issues. The lack of mitigation options means that the SCH or SGE is forced into using a more rigid plan of where to use what. With an AST in a coordinated environment, the SCH/SGE has the potential to say 'okay, you can CU this, which frees me up to move my stuff from here, to this part instead'.

It's maybe more comfy, but not all that much. Also, those meme runs are not done by prog teams or random people in PF. They are done in very controlled environments by very knowledgeable people.

Only sometimes, is 'AST/WHM there to provide HP and restore what is left after shield healers do their stuff for the mechanic', because sometimes, the shield healer ends up doing the HP restoration too. For example, I have a couple fo reclear logs that end up looking like this:

My dude, please....



Your synergy with the WHM was 0. You were just pressing buttons with 0 regard of your co-healer or plan which is understandable since it is PF.

Also, comparing M8s with M5s is really unfair since M8s has vastly more damage and offers a lot more healing opportunities. People are already better geared and don't take as much damage in M5s.

[Supersnow845]

That overheal is functionally nothing in the grand scheme of things

It doesn’t remotely disprove that 99.9% of the time the shields don’t need the regens

[Kohashi]

That overheal is functionally nothing in the grand scheme of things

It doesn’t remotely disprove that 99.9% of the time the shields don’t need the regens

Do you know how stupid that sounds? Please enter M8s and solo heal if you think shield is all you need in a party. Please do FRU with only a shield healer.

[Supersnow845]

Do you know how stupid that sounds? Please enter M8s and solo heal if you think shield is all you need in a party. Please do FRU with only a shield healer.

Solo healing is not the point (where did you even get that from) because all of those fights are very very viable with double shield healer but good luck with double meme healer comp

You’ve yet to present a case as to why regens bring anything useful to the vast majority of encounters besides AST doing more damage than anyone else

The point is the shield healers are simply too strong and the strengths of the regen healers are wasted. You pointing out limited excess GCD healing on forsaken’s part doesn’t disprove her point that SGE uselessly vomits out healing that makes even the regen healers blush and SCH only kinda passes under the radar because it’s easier to dump into ED than anything else

[ForsakenRoe]

My dude, please....

Your synergy with the WHM was 0. You were just pressing buttons with 0 regard of your co-healer or plan which is understandable since it is PF.

Also, comparing M8s with M5s is really unfair since M8s has vastly more damage and offers a lot more healing opportunities. People are already better geared and don't take as much damage in M5s.

Ough do we really have to do this, this early in the morning?

- Yes, I pressed actual barrier GCDs. I do not know why. Maybe I was several pulls deep and tired of wiping to things, maybe I misplayed a couple of places and had to panic-barrier to make up for the misplayed mit, maybe I just didn't care enough to tryhard on that pull because I had no energy that day. I dunno. But the portion of the GCD that is being called 'overheal' here is the healing part, not the barrier part. So, yeh, I applied barriers (to be safe), while the party was already at full HP. Sue me.

- Haimatinon and Panhaimatinon refer to the healing upon the effect's expiration. Are you saying I should have known that my cohealer was going to heal everyone to full before they expired, and not used those actions for their primary purpose (mitigation)?

- Holos gets used for mitigation, not my problem that SE decided to attach a 300p heal to it. What, am I meant to say 'oh wait I'll not use Holos for the 300p barrier and 10% mit here, because everyone's full HP already. Wouldn't want to overheal!'

- Physis is a 60s CD and is completely free. It also amplifies the potency of all the other healing tools. It'd be stupid not to press it, even if it does partially end up as overheal. If it does end up as overheal, it's likely because of an overzealous cohealer topping everyone off before the HOT does its work.

- Pneuma is damage neutral. The first can't really be considered 'overheal' (it was 46% overheal on the GNB, and only the GNB, for some reason), the second was a Swiftcast-Pneuma to try and save some people after a B-Side laser, it barely kept me and one other alive but the MCH died due to being at a lower HP amount after the B-Side than me or the BLM. Maybe gear difference, I don't remember. Either way, I LB'd after it happened to avoid the Weaknesses. Third Pneuma was right at the end of the fight in between the final two Celebrate Good Times raidwides (going into enrage) just to make sure we were all full HP to close out the kill, and considering I threw Zoe on it, I can only assume I was in a state of 'get me out of this damn fight' at the time.

- Philosophia was used going into Funky Floor, to heal after the damage of Disco Inferno without needing to worry about my distance from allies (so I can start making my way towards my spotlight). Once everyone was full HP, yes, additional procs of Eudaimonia were overheal. To avoid that would require not pressing my damage buttons. The second was dumped at the end of the fight, because why not. The Pneuma at the same time was probably enough, but it's a free button and the fight's ending anyway so why not.

Also of note is that I used like, half of the amount of potential uses of these actions. I could have had 3 Philosophia uses, I got 2 (and one was a meme at the end). I could have had 4 uses of Pneuma, I had 3. I could have had another Panhaima somewhere, or another 7 Soterias, or I could have actually pressed Krasis even a single time, but I did not. I used my kit at like, half its potential output, and it's getting me '0 synergy with the WHM' talk.

If this comment is true:

Their entire existence, AST or WHM, is to fill in gaps. AST or WHM will always be secondary and in the background, while shields are the main healers. Even if you are AST, will will NEVER be the main healer. You exist to provide HP and restore whatever is left after shield healers did their stuff for the mechanic.

Surely that means that it's the WHM that had '0 synergy' with me, given that a lot of the SGE kit takes time to apply its healing (Haima/Pan expiration, Eudaimonia procs, Physis, Kerakeia)? I did 'my stuff', and then the WHM occasionally pressed something like Rapture, or Assize, and oops now the delayed healing effect of the SGE is considered overhealing. Though saying that, the WHM also had only 6 casts of Rapture, so their HPS could have also been FAR higher than it was. They weren't doing the 'prep Misery to use in raidbuffs' thing, and if they were, both me and them would have presumably had even more overhealing.


If you want the M8S example, here you go:

Hmm those overheal numbers look pretty comparable, despite the extra damage and more healing required on average, I'd say. I just happened to press the GCD barrier more times, but still had less overheal with it. I imagine the 'overwritten' ones come from places like the Tracking Tremors (applying a new one before the stack mark takes the old one off) or the mit check right after the adds. Also:



Again, didn't use all of my everything, else my overheal would be even higher again.

Lastly, both me and my coheal in this run got purples on damage (me 81/them 94) and grey/green on healing (me 21/them 27). Could coordination/'synergy' be higher? Sure. But it was again a PF, and everyone just wants to get their reclears done and move on. Even so, I'd say that us both having sub-30 Healing parses means that we pretty effectively divided the healing requirements between us, but still, I had more in the tank that I could have used (which would have also ended up as overheal).

Overheal isn't necessarily 'bad', unless it causes another problem down the line. For example, using an Indom on SCH that is 100% overheal, bad, because that could have been an Energy Drain. Using an Ixochole on SGE that is 100% overheal, not only is it 'not bad' (assuming that you don't need the Addersgall for anything else) and you're not punished at all (because it costs you no damage to use), it actually slightly rewards you, because it gives you 700MP back. Wasting Addersgall on pure overheal, sometimes, is actually mandatory for your MP economy, which is a bit weird a design IMO but that's how SE's gone and made it

And why are you feeding my logs into the 'you did this and this wrong' machine anyway? Next time please at least have the courtesy to check the log yourself for my mistakes instead of outsourcing it

[ForsakenRoe]

Solo healing is not the point (where did you even get that from) because all of those fights are very very viable with double shield healer but good luck with double meme healer comp

Assuming that we have a second Healer that is playing a Healer job, but doesn't press a single healing action, just does damage (so as to make sure that mechanics still function predictably), say, a SCH that doesn't summon their Faerie, doesn't press any Soils, Expedients, Succors, only presses Broil, Bio, Chain and Bane

Assuming all of that, yeh, I think a SGE could still potentially solo heal the fight

[Kohashi]

Ough do we really have to do this, this early in the morning?

Holy mother of wall of text...lol. Wrap it up next time, please.

Overall, I don't care why you did what you did. I wanted to show that the point you were trying to make was just rubbish and the example was just bad and disingenuous.

The reason why you got a purple parse was because you were spamming your abilities on top of people being overgeared. This is further supported by the fact that you had 4 deaths + 4 damage downs, yet you have cleared and didn't even hit enrage. Clear time was 9:52, and the enrage timer is 9:54, with 10:06 being the wipe.

As for analyzing the log it's just easier to see the overall overheal and which sources contributed to it. FFlogs is more precise but more tedious as I didn't care about time stamps or mechanics.

And yes I am well aware how SGE works and their MP economy, and speaking of which, you have used 0 rizomata and you left your adersal overcap 4 times. The same thing can be said about your M8's example.

Anyway... It's M5s.. and it's already late in the tier, you don't have to perfectly play the fight.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Points out cases "shield+shield/ast = good ; meme comp/regen+regen = bad" (gross oversimplification yes, but you get the idea). Then slapped with 'no synergy with cohealer/pls solo heal FRU as shield healer'.

Really feels like reading a response from SE.

[…]Assuming all of that, yeh, I think a SGE could still potentially solo heal the fight

IMHO from what I recall from their track record, many encounters are solo healable. The regular ‘wall’ are usually specific mechanics that throws out invisible healer marker that goes to a random person whenever 2nd healer does not exist in the party.