#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[BigCheez]

I think the PLD rework was nice. It made more sense and was a lot less janky. The rotation was very different, sure, but classes change rotation every few levels when leveling, for example, anyway.

I still don't know why SE should really change WHM. What's wrong with having a pure healer that is simple, intuitive, and straight to the point?

Not everything has to be a thesis for string theory and a million interactions and things to keep track of to be "interesting".

I do however, agree that they should rethink in some way to make synch down to low levels a lot more engaging and interesting. Because classes are done to function best at max level, synch down feels like garbage.

I don't know what solution they could implement, to allow to still keep low-level content relevant and also just not slap a sync similar to GW2 for example.

The PLD dework was diabolical. They removed everything that made the job unique and interesting and turned it into a boring version of GNB.

[Kohashi]

The PLD dework was diabolical. They removed everything that made the job unique and interesting and turned it into a boring version of GNB.

I'm sure the entire PLD being "excluded" from parties because while it was unique, it just offered nothing special or enough damage to warrant their admission.

Literally every class can do every content, you may as well have said “it has good design because you can select it in the menu”

Regardless WHM is the core of one of the few comps that simply ISNT viable and that’s the double regen healer comp. WHM struggles to actually hold its own in high tier content often overly relying on the shield healer to cover its deficits, AST certainly isn’t the problem in the double regen comp

That's literally it! The entire philosophy behind SE design, to be able to do every content regardless of the class.

You didn't elaborate (unless I missed) how it guts other classes, so I do insist on actually shedding light on what you originally meant. And to add to the elaborate please, do include which high content WHM cannot hold it's own?

While double shield healers has some merits in some places, it's far suboptimal to actually run that opposed to pure + shield.

As for AST, not only do they need a shield to cover their deficit, but they cannot also appropriately respond if things go south. AST will NEVER be able to burst heal with 0 preparation a team the same way WHM can. I know AST is nice but you shit on whm for the wrong reasons..lol.

[Supersnow845]

Like I said WHM relies more heavily on its partner than just about any other pair of classes. WHM is good at pure healing which is basically never needed and bad at mitigation which is always needed. Having to heavily rely on the shield healer doesn’t make it viable, it just increases the stress on the shield healer. WHM simply doesn’t have enough mitigation to compensate for the fact that healers in this game are basically glorified mitigators.

AST gets 3 mitigations per 2 minutes plus an ability to spam shields, WHM gets 2 and they both HAVE to near overlap for some ungodly reason, it’s mitigation capabilities are weaker than some DPS classes and more rigid than any other class in the game (every other class has at least one mitigation on a shorter CD than WHM)

AST and the shield healers simply do not struggle with throughput enough to warrant WHM having so little in the way of useful mitigation in the 1 in 10,000 chance that WHM’s higher HPS might save a run over AST who near equals it in HPS. Thats why I drew the comparison to double regens, because they show that WHM has a deficit. Double shields were meta basically all of EW and only aren’t now because AST is so ridiculous on the damage front. Double regens on the other hand are a meme comp, and AST has basically twice the functional mitigation of WHM. Anecdotal I know but I don’t know a single shield healer main who actively wants a WHM over an AST, hell half of them want the other shield healer over WHM

It’s just very hard to see if you haven’t seen it from the shield healers side that WHM is very good at making you think you are contributing while in reality you are just making the shield healers job harder, doing 80% of the “work” AST does forcing the shield healers to do 120% to keep up

And this isn’t even actually WHM’s fault, it has strengths but square refuses to design encounters to play to them. I’d rather square ups damage to make WHM’s contribution more useful over making it a pseudo shield healer like AST, but until they do that WHM just doesn’t bring anything to the table

[Kohashi]

Like I said WHM relies more heavily on its partner than just about any other pair of classes. WHM is good at pure healing which is basically never needed and bad at mitigation which is always needed. Having to heavily rely on the shield healer doesn’t make it viable, it just increases the stress on the shield healer. WHM simply doesn’t have enough mitigation to compensate for the fact that healers in this game are basically glorified mitigators.

what?????? What 3 mits/ 2 minutes? Are you counting CU twice?

Also, I have NEVER seen 2 AST in a party in high-end content, just the same way I have never seen 2 WHM, why would you even want or measure the class design on such a flawed premise? What's even the point of it?

I am seriously debating wether you ever did any high content where you weren't severely overcapped for it because it sounds to me that way.

The reason why AST has "3" mitigations is that it severely lacks burst heal, while WHM does not, so it needs to buy time for the regen or spells, to reach its full potential.

As for the :

It’s just very hard to see if you haven’t seen it from the shield healers side that WHM is very good at making you think you are contributing while in reality you are just making the shield healers job harder, doing 80% of the “work” AST does forcing the shield healers to do 120% to keep up

Their entire existence, AST or WHM, is to fill in gaps. AST or WHM will always be secondary and in the background, while shields are the main healers. Even if you are AST, will will NEVER be the main healer. You exist to provide HP and restore whatever is left after shield healers did their stuff for the mechanic. Both AST and WHM do that just fine and approach the issue differently. It doesn't mean AST or WHM are useless just because they are in the "background". Each has to do their role equally to provide.

[BigCheez]

I'm sure the entire PLD being "excluded" from parties because while it was unique, it just offered nothing special or enough damage to warrant their admission.

Didn't happen outside of week 1 P8S.

They could have made smaller changes to adjust the damage profile without gutting the entire job. Or perhaps had the foresight to realise that making the whole game revolve around 2 minute burst windows might not be the best idea.

[Kohashi]

Didn't happen outside of week 1 P8S.

They could have made smaller changes to adjust the damage profile without gutting the entire job. Or perhaps had the foresight to realise that making the whole game revolve around 2 minute burst windows might not be the best idea.

I heard about that being the case for a few expansions but then again..

I mean, I dunno, I did play "old" PLD and after rework, and I feel it moved in the right direction. Again, you dislike the changes, the same as I dislike the new spells " sepulture" and "suplication" hahaha. Doing 3 Atonements just felt right. Now, those 2 new spells make the sequence feel janky. I hate every minute of it..lol.

Oh well, no point in crying over spilled milk.

[BigCheez]

I heard about that being the case for a few expansions but then again..

I mean, I dunno, I did play "old" PLD and after rework, and I feel it moved in the right direction. Again, you dislike the changes, the same as I dislike the new spells " sepulture" and "suplication" hahaha. Doing 3 Atonements just felt right. Now, those 2 new spells make the sequence feel janky. I hate every minute of it..lol.

Oh well, no point in crying over spilled milk.

Definitely not. It was the 2nd highest DPS tank in Shb and the only things in Ew with a DPS check tight enough that it would have mattered were week 1 P8S and TOP.

PLD was my main since day 1 and I dropped it completely after the 6.3 changes and didn't touch it again until they at least added a small amount of room for optimisation with the new atonement combo.

[Kohashi]

Definitely not. It was the 2nd highest DPS tank in Shb and the only things in Ew with a DPS check tight enough that it would have mattered were week 1 P8S and TOP.

PLD was my main since day 1 and I dropped it completely after the 6.3 changes and didn't touch it again until they at least added a small amount of room for optimisation with the new atonement combo.

fair

Also, what optimisation? Those 2 spells are reskinned versions of atonement, nothing else. You still execute them in the same order.

[Kacho_Nacho]

So when does the strike start?

06-08-2024. It's on the very first post.

[ForsakenRoe]

what?????? What 3 mits/ 2 minutes? Are you counting CU twice?

Also, I have NEVER seen 2 AST in a party in high-end content, just the same way I have never seen 2 WHM, why would you even want or measure the class design on such a flawed premise? What's even the point of it?

I am seriously debating wether you ever did any high content where you weren't severely overcapped for it because it sounds to me that way.

The reason why AST has "3" mitigations is that it severely lacks burst heal, while WHM does not, so it needs to buy time for the regen or spells, to reach its full potential.

Their entire existence, AST or WHM, is to fill in gaps. AST or WHM will always be secondary and in the background, while shields are the main healers. Even if you are AST, will will NEVER be the main healer. You exist to provide HP and restore whatever is left after shield healers did their stuff for the mechanic. Both AST and WHM do that just fine and approach the issue differently. It doesn't mean AST or WHM are useless just because they are in the "background". Each has to do their role equally to provide.

Doing a run where you have two of the same healer would be quite the meme. But I have seen logs for such runs uploaded, so clearly some people try to take on the challenge. It is quite undisputable IMO, that if you were to try for whatever reason, you'd have far more success/be able to clear far more, with less overgearing required, with 2 ASTS than you would with 2 WHMs. Being able to rotate between 4 total CU uses per 2mins, plus having 40s of uptime on Neutral Sect, and 2 Sun Signs between them, means that AST simply has far more versatility in how it mitigates. And that is the crux of WHM's issues. The lack of mitigation options means that the SCH or SGE is forced into using a more rigid plan of where to use what. With an AST in a coordinated environment, the SCH/SGE has the potential to say 'okay, you can CU this, which frees me up to move my stuff from here, to this part instead'.

Only sometimes, is 'AST/WHM there to provide HP and restore what is left after shield healers do their stuff for the mechanic', because sometimes, the shield healer ends up doing the HP restoration too. For example, I have a couple fo reclear logs that end up looking like this:



This isn't me getting chadded either, I got a purple here. SGE just happens to fart out healing with every button it presses, even if it doesn't want to heal at that moment. Kerachole, for example, is a larger portion of my HPS because of the attached regen, than the mitigation aspect of it.



Here's one from M8S, where me and the cohealer both were pretty equal both on damage and on healing parse, the amount of actual healing is alarmingly close considering Pure Healers are meant to be the ones that handle it more. It is also undeniable that the amount of tools that a double Pure comp has would not let a party clear the fight (probably even with more gear), but a SCH/SGE has enough throughput, even when in minimum ILVL gear, to get through the HPS checks of the fight. Because this game is entirely comprised of mit checks, even things that look like HPS checks, like the 8hit stack marker, are actually mit checks in disguise. SE needs to come up with a way to incentivize pure healing throughput more, in a way that can't be affected by mitigation being applied

fair

Also, what optimisation? Those 2 spells are reskinned versions of atonement, nothing else. You still execute them in the same order.

Atonement is 460p, Supplication 500, Sepulchre 540p. The Holy Spirit proc is also 500p. Ideally, you'd want to put the harder of the hits into your FOF window, which means trying to avoid having Atonement itself be in there