#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[AmiableApkallu]

I don't care about raiding, SE needs to un-nerf dungeons, strengthen the sync down so that people stop coasting the dungeons, and buff GCD heals so they are used more. Make healers have to heal more in dungeons. This is coming from a tank main.

If an oGCD gets the job done, I'm using an oGCD.

I mean, as a WHM, there is no single-target GCD heal that's going to compete with Benediction, so if you want me to dip into my (non-lily/FFLogs-damage-neutral) GCD heals, you, as the tank, are going to have to start taking more damage.

[ForsakenRoe]

I don't care about raiding, SE needs to un-nerf dungeons, strengthen the sync down so that people stop coasting the dungeons, and buff GCD heals so they are used more. Make healers have to heal more in dungeons. This is coming from a tank main.

Using an old example of 'BIS geared SCH in Aetherfont, back in EW', some quick maths I did implied that for the first boss (the weird axolotl thing) to pressure us enough to not only burn through all of the SCH's OGCDs, but to also force them to use even a single GCD action (eg a Deploy Adlo) per minute, that boss would have to deal a blast of 20k raidwide damage, every 15 seconds, on top of everything it already was doing. But that's BIS (660 at the time), and the dungeon allows you in at an item level as low as 605.

The sheer amount of extra pressure that would be required, to make 'GCD heals used more', is A: far too high for casuals to surmount (especially if the increase is 'sudden', since it's very unlikely SE would go back and change old content), and also B: scales horrendously inversely with gear. What was a 'hard healing challenge that forces GCD healing' at I690 in Tender Valley (the pots at the end) or Strayborough (the dolls that spam raidwides at the end), became 'this needs only your OGCD kit to handle' at i700, and then later became 'this needs only parts of your OGCD kit to handle' with the crafted i710. Each of these jumps in how much less GCD healing was needed, was just 10 item levels. Our power, our output, scales far too fast for there to be an 'increase to healing required' that feels good at all gear levels, and the massive difference in output that those 55 ILVLs give in the Aetherfont are what make it impossible. Either the challenge is tuned to feel good at 605 in Aetherfont, and 660 crushes it (which is how it currently seems to be designed), or it's tuned for an item level higher than 605, and 605 is soulcrushingly hard to clear with (or even inpossible, if the player is not of sufficient skill).

So, I think the solution can use 'healing required is increased' as a factor, sure. But it can't be the only factor

[TheDustyOne]

and buff GCD heals so they are used more.

This is pointless; GCD heals aren't avoided because they're underpowered, they're avoided because that's a Glaroilificosis lost. If we want GCD heals to be used, you need to cull the oGCDs and increase the frequency of unavoidable damage.

It wouldn't matter if Cure II was 300 potency or a full Benediction, the fact it's on the GCD is what will make people avoid it. Besides, the heals are already plenty potent, we just lack the required damage to have us actually need it.

[YarnMage48]

....not incl. their fillers and role actions but I'm not going to look at them for the moment. [/SIZE]

Ah I see you aren't going to look at the things that make them different, so naturally, you don't see the differences. Yeah that checks.

[TheDustyOne]

Ah I see you aren't going to look at the things that make them different, so naturally, you don't see the differences. Yeah that checks.

The fillers are even less unique compared to the healers than what Rein has talked about; there's a reason I refer to all of them as Glaroilificosis. The only difference they have is the name and slight potency variations, there's no gameplay difference between spamming Broil and spamming Dosis and refreshing Bio and Eukrasian Dosis.

And Role actions live up to their name, every healer has the exact same ones.

SGE really is just SCH without the Fairy. There is nuance in their differences, but the decision making is 95% similar.

[ASkellington]

Ah I see you aren't going to look at the things that make them different, so naturally, you don't see the differences. Yeah that checks.

Its not that we're ignoring the differences. The differences are not enough doubly so because SGE isn't what was advertised nor promised.

If Kardia was an actual mechanic instead of a set and forget buff to heal the tank, if SGE actually had to heal through doing DPS and had limited healing options where it could heal without doing damage then I will accept it being different from SCH enough to be its own healing class. Until then, its a SCH clone.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Ah I see you aren't going to look at the things that make them different, so naturally, you don't see the differences. Yeah that checks.

Genuinely asking, what makes their filler different?

1. Dosis - Broil
2. Eukrasia Dosis - Bios
3. Dyskrasia - Art of War

Is it Eukrasia..? Is it because I need to press an extra button to use GCD shield or something? If you mean the 'extra step' of having to press Eukrasia to apply DoT...well I will not presume to know of you. But in my perspective, it just turns 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 into 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 (one extra press of [1] hotkey per half a minute). I will still look at the DoT timer to judge when I should be refreshing my DoT. Same exact number. This isn't just for SGE/SCH btw, as the regen healer are also equally in the rut on this front.

Is it the actual healing GCD spells? On that front, I also don't feel different enough, even until my last high end experience from last tier. Taking the infamous p10s example, my worst run still had me cast a total of 19 GCDs for heals out of 199 GCD casts. Now if I were a SGE in that run, I'd get to press Eukrasia 19 extra times, meaning I'll have 38/219 GCD spent on non-Dosis...? Yaayyy...??? What if this is a smoother encounter or non-high ends? Perish the thought, I will probably not even touching Eukrasia outside to refresh DoT thanks to how abundant their HPS is.

Or is it two target gain to use AoE on SCH while it's three target gain to use AoE on 3 other healers?

What about role action? Depending on how much piety you have, 7000-7800 MP are usually the sweet spot to start using Lucid... there is no difference between healers. Surecast? Same. Swiftcast? Again, same; either save for raise or play it risky by swiftcasting Glaroilficosis? Rescue? Lol.

I genuinely can't think anything else.

TheDustyOne nailed it though. Simply put, it's the decision making, they are too similar to one another.

[Supersnow845]

Ah I see you aren't going to look at the things that make them different, so naturally, you don't see the differences. Yeah that checks.

The problem is the things you are selling as “differences” aren’t MEANINGFULLY different

Is kardia being a buff you can pass around that works off of your damage GCD different to the fairy casting embrace on the lowest HP party member……..yes

Is it meaningfully different in that it induces you to make different decisions………no

And that’s where the problems arise with comparisons of SCH and SGE. Their skills are just different enough to warrant different tooltips but aren’t different enough to actually induce you to make meaningfully different decisions. Like sure panhaima is 5 stacks of shields and only pure heals you for unused stacks while seraph is 2 stacks of a shield and heal but in practice where the SGE uses panhaima the SCH will use seraph which makes the skills not really have a meaningful difference. The only skills that stand out are the unique skills of which SCH is the only one that doesn’t have analogues in SGE’s kit; namely illumination, the sprint part of expedient and deployment

Compare this to say AST and WHM. AST doesn’t have a “rapture” equivalent where it can dump out on demand AOE healing functionally whenever it wants, but in exchange WHM doesn’t really have a collective or an opposition equivalent as WHM isn’t great at sustained regens

Looking for minute differences that don’t meaningfully alter gameplay is rather pointless in the grand scheme of things

[YarnMage48]

There seems to be a miscommunication here. I don't consider Dosis to be "filler". Well, if you're saying that the primary single target damage button for each healer is functionally the same across classes, then yes, they are indeed quite similar. Though I do have to say that I find the "Eukrasion" gimmick to be neat. Yes, in practice, all it really changes is the amount of space needed on my hotbar for GCD skills. But I still think it's neat, nonetheless. Regardless, that's not the point I was making. The point is that if you ignore differences, you will only see similarities.

I've already discussed several differences between SGE and SCH. I've also already discussed some barriers for further differentiation between healer classes.

If you only want to see the similarities, then I can't stop you. No matter what you choose, I will continue enjoying the game.

[Supersnow845]

There seems to be a miscommunication here. I don't consider Dosis to be "filler". Well, if you're saying that the primary single target damage button for each healer is functionally the same across classes, then yes, they are indeed quite similar. Though I do have to say that I find the "Eukrasion" gimmick to be neat. Yes, in practice, all it really changes is the amount of space needed on my hotbar for GCD skills. But I still think it's neat, nonetheless. Regardless, that's not the point I was making. The point is that if you ignore differences, you will only see similarities.

I've already discussed several differences between SGE and SCH. I've also already discussed some barriers for further differentiation between healer classes.

If you only want to see the similarities, then I can't stop you. No matter what you choose, I will continue enjoying the game.

What do you consider dosis to be if you don’t consider it filler. I mean that’s literally what it is in the most literal sense of the word. It’s what you press when you don’t have anything else to press. I don’t get how that can be up for debate