#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Merrigan]

Generally, fights do have ample windows for dps, only but then again, how would you introduce anything than mashing some extra buttons to feel meaningful in some type of way? At the end of the day mashing 1 or 1-2-3 is not all that different as that 1-2-3 is a reskin of that 1 button.

For example, if we want to make healers classes that MUST dps, let's create synergies between heal cycles and dps cycles.

One combo could, for example, unlock a group heal buff, while another could buff the solo heal.

A simple idea thrown in at the last minute, to show that thinking about dps rotation isn't necessarily a useless addition of extra buttons.

[Azurarok]

Don't WoW's specs kinda allow healers and tanks to be much more focused on the role than FFXIV? If you want to be doing damage you just have a damaging mode. FFXIV our one PvE kit's supposed to apply everywhere PvE.

The WoL is also kinda written to be an absurdly strong fighter that can beat up anyone, but it doesn't really feel that way when you're mostly spamming glare to do it, whether your damage is scaled well or not.

Most things outside the dutyfinder are designed to be playable solo, whether that's "correct" for an mmo or not, and I want to be able to enjoy them with these jobs.

[Dante131]

I dont think tanks and healers need to do similar damage at all. they can out damage me by 60% and thats fine.

The problem is not that they out DPS healers.... the problem is that they can do their nails while fighting the boss and NOT NEED healers

ultimately, as you pointed out, thats battle and a little class design. SE made tank jobs that beg for harder encounters, they made healing for harder encounters.....they just forgot to invite the encounter team to the same sessions. result being, tanks are godlike creatures that can heal themselves, deal damage and walk on water, healers are basically out of work.

absolutly agree with you this is disgusting. WAR have basicly a 15 sec benediction in big pulls what the hell. On this point i was done aswell this is just abnormal.

[Dante131]

For example, if we want to make healers classes that MUST dps, let's create synergies between heal cycles and dps cycles.

One combo could, for example, unlock a group heal buff, while another could buff the solo heal.

A simple idea thrown in at the last minute, to show that thinking about dps rotation isn't necessarily a useless addition of extra buttons.

So the white mage lillys turned around ?

[Dante131]

Don't WoW's specs kinda allow healers and tanks to be much more focused on the role than FFXIV? If you want to be doing damage you just have a damaging mode. FFXIV our one PvE kit's supposed to apply everywhere PvE.

The WoL is also kinda written to be an absurdly strong fighter that can beat up anyone, but it doesn't really feel that way when you're mostly spamming glare to do it, whether your damage is scaled well or not.

Most things outside the dutyfinder are designed to be playable solo, whether that's "correct" for an mmo or not, and I want to be able to enjoy them with these jobs.

Nothing stops you from putting on another Job Stone in the overworld, right? Actually, isn’t the fact that the WoL can use all classes what makes them so powerful? So, outside of duties, there’s really nothing forcing you to spam Glare or am I misunderstanding something?

[Supersnow845]

Lily’s are just a garbage system because you are actively incentivised to overheal to achieve minor DPS gains and there is little to no choice with Lily’s.

Kardia if it wasn’t so underbaked would be a better example. If different spells triggered different kardia effects but didn’t meaningfully affect damage that sort of system would be better, like imagine if you casted a spell with a higher MP cost but it added a shield on top of kardia like seraphic veil does, it would be useful in phases of high autos but you wouldn’t want to spend the MP when the boss is doing mechanics

That’s just a super basic example but Lily’s are not a desirable goal

[Merrigan]

So the white mage lillys turned around ?

I was thinking more along the lines of replacing abilities with AOE / Solo abilities depending on your cycle. Once again, it's just an idea. Lilys depends on the number of heal you're making with certain abilities, it's not really the same thing. The ability in itself is... Frustrating, 'cause of the overheal it generates.

But otherwise, Supersnow is right: the same logic can be applied to dps. Hey, why have such a long DRG rotation? Might as well restrict it to a single button, eh

[Dante131]

Lily’s are just a garbage system because you are actively incentivised to overheal to achieve minor DPS gains and there is little to no choice with Lily’s.

Kardia if it wasn’t so underbaked would be a better example. If different spells triggered different kardia effects but didn’t meaningfully affect damage that sort of system would be better, like imagine if you casted a spell with a higher MP cost but it added a shield on top of kardia like seraphic veil does, it would be useful in phases of high autos but you wouldn’t want to spend the MP when the boss is doing mechanics

That’s just a super basic example but Lily’s are not a desirable goal

I never said it’s a desirable goal, definitely not!

[Dante131]

I was thinking more along the lines of replacing abilities with AOE / Solo abilities depending on your cycle. Once again, it's just an idea. Lilys depends on the number of heal you're making with certain abilities, it's not really the same thing. The ability in itself is... Frustrating, 'cause of the overheal it generates.

But otherwise, Supersnow is right: the same logic can be applied to dps. Hey, why have such a long DRG rotation? Might as well restrict it to a single button, eh

you would be shocked how many people wants a feature from SE which let them put the rota to 1 button and people already using nono tools for it

[ForsakenRoe]

Once again we circle back to the obvious solution: Have 111 be balanced via potency tuning to deal the vast majority of the damage output of the job, and have additional rotational complexities available for a miniscule potency gain for those who want to use it. Once again, I give this example for SCH:

Broil: 340p
Biolysis: 370p (30s)
Miasmalysis: 360p (24s)
Shadowflare: 350p (15s, AOE)

With this, pressing 111 and ignoring the DOTs entirely would be 99% of the damage output of the current DT SCH (and that's including the DOT in the DT version, so this would be even more 'casual friendly'), and it'd also be 98% of the effectiveness of playing the above potencies and perfectly refreshing every DOT on time, every time. Not a single piece of content would be locked off (DPS check-wise) from a player who chooses to 111 their way through the game, even Ultimates would remain just as clearable as they are now.

As long as additional actions are made to be a very low gain vs their respective 'filler' actions, they can safely be 'ignored' by anyone who just wants to play the game and is not interested in optimization. But for those players who DO want to optimize as much as possible, the additional actions would provide extra gameplay decisions. For example, say WHM has a new action called Banish 3, with a potency of 380 (40p more than Glare 3), and a CD of 15s. Ignoring this action when it's ready and using a Glare instead, is functionally an average loss of 6.66p per GCD, completely inconsequential in terms of 'beating the enrage timer'. But, holding onto the action for a couple GCDs, incurring that 6.66p penalty on purpose, and then being able to use Banish as a mobility action where you'd otherwise be forced to use an early Dia refresh (which currently deals a mere 75p), results in the loss of holding the action turning into a massive gain

Nothing stops you from putting on another Job Stone in the overworld, right? Actually, isn’t the fact that the WoL can use all classes what makes them so powerful? So, outside of duties, there’s really nothing forcing you to spam Glare or am I misunderstanding something?

Not everyone wants to level a second Job, just to avoid 'pressing my damage rotation in overworld content is boring'