#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[ForsakenRoe]

I think it's also safe to say that some form of PLD's identity has to do with healing, it's literally a Knight with white magic.

It has to be some middle ground, some sustain is fine but not current levels,

Yeh, the 'middle ground' for all of the tanks (except PLD) was SHB.

PLD in SHB: Literally zero selfhealing in their rotation
PLD in DT: 1000p per 22s via Holy Sheltron, 1600p per minute from Confiteor combo, 800-1200p per minute from Holy Spirit/Holy Circle

WAR in SHB: X healing from Nascent Flash (X being equal to damage dealt, so weaker hits like Overpower = weaker healing. Also, on an ally the healing was reduced by 50%), 20% HP restored per 2min via Thrill of Battle, 1200p per 60s from Equilibrium

WAR in DT: 1200p (that is always 1200 and does not scale) per 25s from Bloodwhetting, 2200p per 60s from Equilibrium, 20% HP restored per 2min via Thrill, 1500p restored per 2min via Damnation

GNB in SHB: 1200p per 60s from Aurora
GNB in DT: 1800p per 60s from Aurora (now 2 charges too), 900p per 25s from Heart of Corundum, 20% HP restored per 2min via Great Nebula


Doing the maths, these three tanks (DRK's a little less egregious IMO due to it relying more on 'barriers' than 'direct HP restoration') have had their 'free healing via OGCDs that don't cost them any damage to use' increased by over 2000p per minute. PLD is expectially crazy, given it started with zero 'free' healing, so it went from 0 to about 5500p overnight

This also isn't including Barrier effects like Guardian and Brutal Shell, or the basic 123 combo healing like Storm's Path. Or the raidwide mitigations like Shake It Off (800p total) or Divine Veil (300p)


So, going back to SHB levels of self-sustain would be a big step. Wouldn't solve the issues overnight, but it's a start. Course, we won't be going back, because the Tanks would feel like they're not the main character anymore

[Rithy255]

Yeh, the 'middle ground' for all of the tanks (except PLD) was SHB.

I mean even then warrior was clearly a outlier.

I was thinking more between shb war-gnb sustain, but yeah it should be a lot lower then current Imo.

[ForsakenRoe]

I mean even then warrior was clearly a outlier.

I was thinking more between shb war-gnb sustain, but yeah it should be a lot lower then current Imo.

It was, but at the same time, there were some restrictions keeping WAR at least slightly more controlled compared to now (before 5.3 at least):

- The healing was 1:1 with the damage dealt. So, using it for a 123 combo meant less healing than using it when you're doing an IR window, so there was sometimes an aspect of 'maybe it's better to hold it for a few seconds, to line it up and get more healing from it by aligning it with my big damage'.

- You couldn't self-target Nascent Flash originally. It HAD to be used on an ally, which meant that the situations we see sometimes now, where a WAR (and only the WAR) is left alive and solos the dungeon boss from 50% all the way down to 0 over the course of like 15 minutes, that wasn't possible back then, because them being the last one alive would leave them with no valid targets for Nascent. Raw Intuition was a simple '20% mit' with no other effects at the time

- Equilibrium didn't have the over-the-top HOT effect tacked on until EW came out

SHB GNB is probably the ideal balance. 1200p as a HOT once per 60s, 200p healing from the '2' in their 123 combo, 200p barrier on self from that same '2', and the ability to transfer that barrier effect to someone else with Heart of Stone. We didn't need more than that

[Maltothoris]

Ya, it was the all the additional changes after SHB where the healing got a little out of control for Gnb. In EW, we got heart of conundrum and the second charge of aurora. Then in 7.0, we got great Nebula and rampart got the 15 percent healing increase to all actions. Then in 7.1, aurora gets buffed from 200 to 300 which is a 50 percent increase. Not only that, there was no separate trait for that which when gnb gets aurora at 45, it's now at 300.

[CaptainLagbeard]

Nascent Flash, even when usable on yourself was somewhat fine back then, as before up to the release of 5.0, Inner Beast had the effect of healing you for 100% of the damage it dealt... So you could Inner Release to throw out 4-5 free Inner Beasts for a good amount of healing with a short lingering 20% mit... Though the difference is that Inner Release was on a 90s CD instead of Nascent's 25s.

[Absurdity]

WAR in SHB: X healing from Nascent Flash (X being equal to damage dealt, so weaker hits like Overpower = weaker healing. Also, on an ally the healing was reduced by 50%), 20% HP restored per 2min via Thrill of Battle, 1200p per 60s from Equilibrium

It doesn't mention it in the tooltip from back then but Nascent only healed you for 50% of your damage dealt and that was reduced by another 50% for the ally you targeted.

Nascent Flash, even when usable on yourself was somewhat fine back then, as before up to the release of 5.0, Inner Beast had the effect of healing you for 100% of the damage it dealt... So you could Inner Release to throw out 4-5 free Inner Beasts for a good amount of healing with a short lingering 20% mit... Though the difference is that Inner Release was on a 90s CD instead of Nascent's 25s.

The IR + Inner Beast spam also came at the cost of a sizeable dps loss, so even if you technically could heal for a ridiculous amount every 90 seconds you really didn't want to, the 5x Fell Cleave during Inner Release were like 50% of your total damage.

Nascent Flash in ShB was kept in line by Warrior's basic 1-2-3 simply not being very good, you couldn't just spam it on cooldown unlike Bloodwhetting.
All you would get out of random NF usage without proper setup was wet noodle healing since Warrior even back then had most of it's damage stuffed into the IR windows and your "downtime" DPS was pretty bad.

But this is probably also why they changed it with Endwalker, bad Warriors complaining about NF's low healing because they used it on a Heavy Swing -> Maim -> Storm's combo.

[CKNovel]

Were WARs completely useless in ARR and HW when they were like that?

Running 2 paladins was better in ARR, there was no penalty for double jobs back then and WAR only had a tank stance.
It's only until HW that WAR got a lot of fixes and had a strong DPS while Paladin fell down due to many reasons related to TP or its identity as a physical tank without physical encounter.

[Supersnow845]

The thing with Aurora is why does it even exist? Like there is nothing thematic about it, and I think this is becoming a wider problem with tank healing.

Sure you can argue Aurora is weak or “not worth deleting” but why does a tank have a self oGCD regen they can share that doesn’t actually interact with their kit at all other than just be a 1800 potency heal. Like why does it exist? I can also point to the regen on HS or the ability for WAR to straight up benediction another player with no cost or shield the entire party because……..angry?

Even beyond warping the game balance a lot of these heals just don’t even thematically fit the classes they are apart of compared to thematic heals like clemency or TBN

[Alice_Rivers]

I've said previously, I'll say it again, adjusting tanks kits (and I stress adjusting) is only part of the answer and alone simply treats a symptom of the problem rather than addressing the problem itself. If nothing does enough damage to threaten us then what need is there for tanks? Much less healers. Therefore while reining in the most egregious tank skills is something that should happen, it should be in conjunction with a general rebalance of incoming damage throughout the game. I did Copperbell Mines just now and a telegraphed AOE on second boss did more damage than first boss' tank buster, my pocket tank who previously defended this tank buster when I mentioned it to them previously suddenly saw my point, it did 95 damage to them with no mits that I saw, that is to say "it did nothing, if not for the flashy effect it wouldn't have been noticed at all". Sure, this is baby's third dungeon and baby sprout is learning, so why are they being taught that what tank mechanics exist are completely ignorable?

While I might not advocate for the first tankbuster you see being multiple times the tank's HP and insta-killing an unsuspecting player (though I DO advocate that past level 50, your basic tutorial is OVER at that point, time to start improving your play), it should be enough that both tank and healer are forced to pay attention and learn that tank busters are actually a threat.

[Tint]

Running 2 paladins was better in ARR, there was no penalty for double jobs back then and WAR only had a tank stance.
It's only until HW that WAR got a lot of fixes and had a strong DPS while Paladin fell down due to many reasons related to TP or its identity as a physical tank without physical encounter.

WAR got fixed in patch 2.1, so shorty after ARR release.

When WAR got buffed they basically added PLD mitigation on top of the (slightly nerfed) self heals and better dps and WAR was the best tank from 2.1 onwards. Holmgang only had a 3 minute cooldown back then, Vengeance a 2 minute cooldown compared to PLDs Sentinel with 3 minutes, Inner Beast was the first on-demand "cooldown" with 20% mitigation. WAR had more mitigation than PLD back then thanks to the shorter cooldowns. Plus party mitigation with Storm's Path and raid dps with Slashing debuff (at least when they added NIN later in ARR, before that you could make little use of it).

https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...c43828a#battle (there is an error, it says Brutal Swing instead of Marauder)

When they added the dps stance for WAR and Fell Cleave in HW the balance was completely off, but WAR was powerfull even before that. It was only between 2.0 and 2.1 that WAR was useless. WAR could not even reach the accuracy caps for Coil T5 without the axe from the ex primals they added in 2.1 if I remember correctly. The job was a complete oversight.