#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Lorika]

I don't understand why people want to add layer upon layer upon layer of mechanic to fix healing. It's not the first time iwonder why, but it's the first time i voice it.
i think all your idea aren't the solution at all.

You just want to add new code into a game know to have a spaghetti code for years.... It's asking for bug, lag, dev taking even more time to to things, risk of mistake making some fight too hard and being nerfed later, rendering thoses mechanic near meaningless on other fight, even more unbalance between jobs etc... etc...

Why wanting to take the risk to make things even worse when the answer, the solution, the fix is way more simple : Tank and DPS just need to have their mit, self-heal/heal and potency nerfed. it's the most simple and efficient way to fix healing.

SE just need to roll back on the powercreep they created.

[Mercury_Grey]

I don't understand why people want to add layer upon layer upon layer of mechanic to fix healing. It's not the first time iwonder why, but it's the first time i voice it.
i think all your idea aren't the solution at all.

You just want to add new code into a game know to have a spaghetti code for years.... It's asking for bug, lag, dev taking even more time to to things, risk of mistake making some fight too hard and being nerfed later, rendering thoses mechanic near meaningless on other fight, even more unbalance between jobs etc... etc...

Why wanting to take the risk to make things even worse when the answer, the solution, the fix is way more simple : Tank and DPS just need to have their mit, self-heal/heal and potency nerfed. it's the most simple and efficient way to fix healing.

SE just need to roll back on the powercreep they created.

i want to point out PLD, and WAR has already had their healing nerfed. PLD before its mini-rework/update used to out heal healers I would know because i mained PLD back in StB and ShB. WAR healing in the showcase build was a lot stronger then it is now. They nerfed it before it went live especially the AoE healing. If they nerfed a lto of mit now then tanks would be squisher then they are now which would defeat the purpose of them ebing tanks. Would you rathor have a tank wiht strong mits an da heal so you can devert your resources more to the party, or a tank who will die despite healing and mitigating. I'll use everkeep extreme conga to explain it. During teh conga tanks have ot use thier 40% mit with maybe a rampart to survive. If tehy nerf that MIT to 30% then they have to use even more mitigation to survive. Since in teh conga its suppose to be a stack, but if people stack the markers everyone blows up

[Supersnow845]

i want to point out PLD, and WAR has already had their healing nerfed. PLD before its mini-rework/update used to out heal healers I would know because i mained PLD back in StB and ShB. WAR healing in the showcase build was a lot stronger then it is now. They nerfed it before it went live especially the AoE healing. If they nerfed a lto of mit now then tanks would be squisher then they are now which would defeat the purpose of them ebing tanks. Would you rathor have a tank wiht strong mits an da heal so you can devert your resources more to the party, or a tank who will die despite healing and mitigating. I'll use everkeep extreme conga to explain it. During teh conga tanks have ot use thier 40% mit with maybe a rampart to survive. If tehy nerf that MIT to 30% then they have to use even more mitigation to survive. Since in teh conga its suppose to be a stack, but if people stack the markers everyone blows up

Yes the point should be the tank and the healer should have to work together to solve the tankbuster, the tankbuster shouldn’t be able to be survived with only the tank mit

Adlo used to basically be a tank mit as you would help the tank survive the tankbuster so they could better spread their mit out, these days you just kitchen sink infrequent tankbustets then otherwise barely interact with your tank kit

The healers have single target heals for a reason

[Lorika]

i want to point out PLD, and WAR has already had their healing nerfed. PLD before its mini-rework/update used to out heal healers I would know because i mained PLD back in StB and ShB. WAR healing in the showcase build was a lot stronger then it is now. They nerfed it before it went live especially the AoE healing. If they nerfed a lto of mit now then tanks would be squisher then they are now which would defeat the purpose of them ebing tanks. Would you rathor have a tank wiht strong mits an da heal so you can devert your resources more to the party, or a tank who will die despite healing and mitigating. I'll use everkeep extreme conga to explain it. During teh conga tanks have ot use thier 40% mit with maybe a rampart to survive. If tehy nerf that MIT to 30% then they have to use even more mitigation to survive. Since in teh conga its suppose to be a stack, but if people stack the markers everyone blows up

Sorry but right now when i see a Tank take a Tank Buster and loosing less than 50% of it's HP (and even less with PLD job skills), thing that can be fixed with just one heal.
When i see a DPS insta healing more than 50% of it's HP after a raid wide AOE.... Damage that was also mitigated by some DPS personal/group Shield/mit, and that can be healed with one group heal.
Without forgeting how trivial most DPS check have become.

I don't know for you but i really think there is some serious problems.

[Mercury_Grey]

Sorry but right now when i see a Tank take a Tank Buster and loosing less than 50% of it's HP (and even less with PLD job skills), thing that can be fixed with just one heal.
When i see a DPS insta healing more than 50% of it's HP after a raid wide AOE.... Damage that was also mitigated by some DPS personal/group Shield/mit, and that can be healed with one group heal.
Without forgeting how trivial most DPS check have become.

I don't know for you but i really think there is some serious problems.

On the DOS having some healing that's better then healers I do agree but at times if a healer has to focus on mechanics like for example worl ext the 6 hot tnak buster and having to keep both tanks alive. The dps having some healing br ok

[Lorika]

The dps having some healing br ok

So a team like the following is ok? : War, GNB, Monk, Picto, Dancer and RDM....

Sorry, but as a healer i feel just completly useless with a party like that.

[Tigore]

Nerfing the tank and DPS party mitigation would get the job done too. Although ... we immediately get met with resistance and backlash if that is the only method we use ... >.> It was what ForsakenRoe mentioned, so she thought that buffing the encounter damage more would be accepted more or not noticed as much. It may seem like a roundabout way to fix the problem, but maybe it can add some more new mechs for us to have fun with if Square can pull it off. Plus using only a full on nerf might have unintended consequences of making the easy soloing stuff more harder than intended. The solo instances would be okay with that WoL self heal buff, but other stuff like solo Hunts, Treasure Chests and FATEs may be a different story.

I can see the other side of it where the tanks and DPS do want to help somewhat with the damage taken too. We could find a midway point where all the roles can do something to help solve a mech. These are some other ideas to consider too. We may still need to consider slightly nerfing some mitigations and self heals, but it might only be a small amount if the encounters are actually hurting the tanks and party members enough. After all, accidentally making the self heals as pitiful as the 1K critical Physick SMN GCD heal is not a curse I want to inflict on anyone.

1. Increase the frequency of tank busters

The fact that the tanks can kitchen sink cooldowns and still be fine is a problem I can read. Typically, tanks are supposed to stagger their cooldown use one at a time for longevity rather than taking almost no damage for 10 - 20 seconds, then suddenly get hammered afterwards. It may still have to be frequent enough so the tanks don't just simply provoke swap every minute and still kitchen sink it. If we do want swaps, Warcraft often times used a stacking vuln debuff that lasted maybe 30 seconds that required switching at around 3. The consequences for messing up the swap too early or not doing so usually involves taking more than double damage or flat out dying at a full stack debuff. Yes, the Warcraft Paladins were able to bubble off the debuff (Divine Shield) and right click it off immediately, but it was a 5 minute cooldown.

2. Increase the boss' auto attack damage

This can be a simpler solution to encourage more use of spells like Regen and Aspected Benefic to counter it. The occasional Sacred Soil -> Lustrate and Taurochole -> Druchole can work to help mitigate this if it is doing significant enough damage to worry about it.

[ForsakenRoe]

I don't understand why people want to add layer upon layer upon layer of mechanic to fix healing. It's not the first time iwonder why, but it's the first time i voice it.
i think all your idea aren't the solution at all.

You just want to add new code into a game know to have a spaghetti code for years.... It's asking for bug, lag, dev taking even more time to to things, risk of mistake making some fight too hard and being nerfed later, rendering thoses mechanic near meaningless on other fight, even more unbalance between jobs etc... etc...

Why wanting to take the risk to make things even worse when the answer, the solution, the fix is way more simple : Tank and DPS just need to have their mit, self-heal/heal and potency nerfed. it's the most simple and efficient way to fix healing.

SE just need to roll back on the powercreep they created.

I don't think it's a good idea to consider 'SE can't code without making a spaghetti mess' as a factor in whether an idea has merit or not. If we did, nothing would ever get added again, look at how jank most additions to the game have been. Glamour as a system was a hack job back in 2.3 and we're still paying the price for its implementation, for example, and since then rather than fixing it to work better, they've bandaid fixed the storage issue with Glamour Dressers. Nor do I think 'what if one job is better at solving the mechanic than another' is a factor, because A: To avoid 'one job is better than another' you'd have to have every job be entirely identical in their designs, and B: SE has made situations where one job is clearly better than another at solving a mechanic quite regularly, so long as every job can clear I don't think it matters so much if one job has a slight advantage at a mechanic. Look at AST in P3S vs WHM (which actually brought AST play rates up to WHM levels for that one fight), look at a great many fights that have 5 tankbusters, where WAR (and only WAR) can Holmgang 3 of them (this happened again with M3S, so it's not like that was just a Stormblood thing).

I hear a lot of people saying that 'the solution to make healers more engaging is to make us heal more'. The idea I posted would make people either heal more, or use Esuna more, both of which are 'what healers should be doing' according to some players. It being a separate system, I'd argue, would allow for more granularity on adjusting how much damage it does/how hard the fight is, not less. If SE were to just do a change like 'nerf healing power by 50%, nerf incoming damage by 25%' (such that we're effectively weaker at healing vs now), I think that runs at least the same risk of 'fight is too hard' (if not more), but also there's less dials to adjust to change the fight difficulty to a more satisfying level than current gameplay (but still clearable). Consider, as we get more gear currently, the healing challenge dissipates, because our heals get stronger AND the damage we take goes down (due to Defence/MagicDefence stats on gear). But an external mechanic like the suggested one, doesn't necessarily have to interact with the defensive stats. The mechanic that applies 50k of Aetherblight in Week 1 progression, could still apply 50k in full BIS, our healing power would go up, but the value to heal would not go down (unlike currently), making the content more resistant to 'being outgeared' in that regard

At this point, I don't even think complete removal of Tank/DPS party-mit/selfheal tools would solve the issue. Take WAR. Back in HW, they had Equilibrium (which they didn't want to use because in Deliverance it restored TP) and Inner Beast (which they didn't want to use because that's a Fell Cleave you're missing out on). If WAR were taken back to that point in terms of their party-mit/self healing capabilities, I don't think that really solves the Healer gameplay issues. Instead of using 5 of my SGE tools to get through a dungeon pull, maybe I use 7, or 8. But I have like 9 total tools, so my gameplay is still 'OGCD bullshit go' and then spam Dyskrasia. We can't just blame it all on BloodWhetting and the like, our own Healing kits are part of the problem too. I mean, look at DRK, back then in HW they had Dark Arts Abyssal Drain, which was functionally similar to what we now know as Bloodwhetting. But it wasn't really an issue back then, and it IS an issue now. What changed? How much extra stuff we have access to with an additional 40 levels of kit would be a factor I expect

So a team like the following is ok? : War, GNB, Monk, Picto, Dancer and RDM....

Sorry, but as a healer i feel just completly useless with a party like that.

That's a lot of healing and mitigation across that party, yes. Now imagine we remove all of the mits, and raidwide healing actions from that team. So, WAR loses SIO and Nascent Flash (they can only heal themselves with BW/Equil), GNB can only self-target Aurora and loses Heart of Light. Monk loses the Earth's Reply heal (it can keep Mantra since it's been there since ARR), PCT loses Star Prism's heal and Tempera Grassa (it can keep the self-shield), DNC loses Curing Waltz, Improvization and Shield Samba, and RDM loses Magick Barrier's 10% mit (it can keep the healing+ since it's basically another Mantra). Okay, with all of that stuff removed, how do I as a healer, tackle Worqor Lar Dor EX? TBH, basically the same, but I press a Medica3/Aspected Helios every now and then to keep up with the DOT.

So, after all of that, the net result of the changes listed is that our gameplay now includes an occasional Medica3 that wasn't there before. I don't think that'd really solve much. Plus, old content has been designed with those mits on non-Healers in mind, so removing them means having to go back and check old content to make sure it can be cleared with the changed job kits, and the added pressure on the healers to do all of the mitting/shielding, and that sounds to me like it might cause 'risk of mistake making some fight too hard and being nerfed later'

[ForsakenRoe]

sry for doublepost the other one is very long

Nerfing the tank and DPS party mitigation would get the job done too. Although ... we immediately get met with resistance and backlash if that is the only method we use ... >.> It was what ForsakenRoe mentioned, so she thought that buffing the encounter damage more would be accepted more or not noticed as much. It may seem like a roundabout way to fix the problem, but maybe it can add some more new mechs for us to have fun with if Square can pull it off.

1. Increase the frequency of tank busters

2. Increase the boss' auto attack damage

We've seen in this very thread, many Tank players have not taken kindly to the suggestion that their fun (read: healing for their whole HP bar each GCD with Bloodwhetting) has to be impacted, in order for the Healer role to have more fun added to it. An external system would stand a much stronger opportunity to be accepted as a way to rein in the power level of these non-Healer actions, without directly reining them in via numerical tuning or outright removal.

Here's an example: Think about Interruptible Actions. The first pack in Dohn Mheg, you can Interrupt one of the enemies to prevent it from empowering one of the plant thingys. Or Hermes in Ktisis Hyperborea. If the Tank does the Interrupt, the amount of healing we have to do as Healers is directly affected, they do less damage because the cast was Interrupted and they didn't get a damage+ buff. But we never say 'damn that Tank's taking all the fun out of my job by Interrupting that add' because it's an external mechanic that is dedicated to being 'Tank gameplay'. So, if such a thing existed for Healers, an external mechanic that any role can try to participate in and help out, but only a Healer can truly resolve (EG a Tank can apply a barrier to block the effect on themselves, but they cannot get all 8 players every time it's applied due to the CD), then I think that stands to be much more accepted by all sides of the playerbase, as Healers would feel they've got a mechanic dedicated to their role to solve, and NonHealers would feel that they can use their utilities to help out at times (without solving the mechanic completely on their own). But EG: in a situation where A BRD clears their own Aetherblight because they used Warden's Paean on themselves, I expect they'll think 'hell yeh I was able to use this utility for this mechanic that's cool', not 'damn this sucks why can't I use this action on everyone and do the healer's job for them'

As for 1: I've never understood why we have a CD of 25s on Provoke. If it were say, 10s, it'd allow us to have more fast paced tankswapping in certain encounters. Not that every fight has to have faster-paced tankswapping, but it'd be nice to have the design option available

As for 2: If an enemy were to apply 50% of their attack as actual damage, and 50% as the Aetherblight debuff, we could see a fight design where the tanks have to swap because of the building debuff, and once they swap, the tank who has aggro will be building up Aetherblight from taking autoattacks while the 'offtank' would be healing their own Aetherblight away with their selfhealing tools. And this would allow certain design elements, such as how WAR's Nascent Flash allows them to heal both their own Aetherblight, but also helps their co-tank's Aetherblight level stay lower (meaning they don't have to swap back as fast). Or Cover from an OT PLD could allow the MT to get some extra seconds to clear some of their Aetherblight (and not build more because the PLD's taking it), extending their time as the MT for a bit longer, etc.

[Lorika]

Now imagine we remove all of the mits, and raidwide healing actions from that team.

Where did i say remove?
I said nerf, it's completly different.