#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Tigore]

For Rein's idea, it's mostly sacrificing Bloodwhetting for Shake It Off that would never be done. We will have to address nerfing the multi heal procs in one action before it can even be a close trade off. Thrill of the Battle being sacrificed for a 500 pot regen is a huge bargain probably all WARs would take if you mean consuming the buff after using it. Especially if the buff timer is close to one second left.

Either of ForsakenRoe's and Aravell's ideas could work, although we will have to decide which one fits best. One idea can be considered for other tanks too if another one is selected for WAR.

I do think Aetherblight should be considered too since we have that much healing totalled up across all classes along side healers. The alternative would be to increase max HP of every class and have enemies hit harder, but the heal absorb is probably a better idea.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

For Rein's idea, it's mostly sacrificing Bloodwhetting for Shake It Off that would never be done. We will have to address nerfing the multi heal procs in one action before it can even be a close trade off. Thrill of the Battle being sacrificed for a 500 pot regen is a huge bargain probably all WARs would take if you mean consuming the buff after using it. Especially if the buff timer is close to one second left.

Either of ForsakenRoe's and Aravell's ideas could work, although we will have to decide which one fits best. One idea can be considered for other tanks too if another one is selected for WAR.

I do think Aetherblight should be considered too since we have that much healing totalled up across all classes along side healers. The alternative would be to increase max HP of every class and have enemies hit harder, but the heal absorb is probably a better idea.

It occurred more as a 'spitballing' ideas instead of giving it proper thoughts. But the basis is "sacrifice x for y"; I don't want SIO to have all 3 effects in one press readily available when it was specifically GNB/DRK's niche to have something better to deal with "continuous instance of raidwide" as opposed to PLD/WAR's Veil/SIO for "a single instance of raidwide". Since we already have PLD's Veil being the straightforward one, why not have WAR's function more with sliding scale attached? It's weaker than veil on its own. But proper planning means the WAR could capitalize the effects better. Technically they already do today, but it's tied to only +2/4/6% more eHP per cooldowns dispelled and I don't find that impactful enough.

No question for BW's existence though. The fact it survives as it is until now is just beyond comical.

[Tigore]

I can think of some other factors to make the idea of sacrificing the buffs to work. Shake It Off would also have to check for the buff timers to determine the strength of the additional effect.

Eg.

If ToB timer is greater than 9s, then
X= 500 potency
Y= 15s

If ToB timer is 1s, then
X= 25 potency
Y= 3s

[LynxDubh]

I’ve gotta ask, how is the PF green river in DT compared to SB for everyone? I mained AST back then, but I don’t recall the healer shortage being this bad back then.

[ForsakenRoe]

I’ve gotta ask, how is the PF green river in DT compared to SB for everyone? I mained AST back then, but I don’t recall the healer shortage being this bad back then.

I don't fully remember the exact breakdown of 'how many of each role are in PF' from back then, but I do remember the general consensus surrounding healer discussion at the time. That being, there wasn't really the kind of 'healer sucks' vibe we have now, and definitely not to the extent we have it now, instead it was mostly a case of 'hey WHM is kinda lacking compared to AST, I wish they'd do something about that' and 'WHM's Lily system is so nothingburger, you can hide the Job Gauge and still play the class just as effectively, because the system has so little impact on your gameplay'

So basically, if they had done the SHB Lily rework and that's it, instead of also deciding 'oh also we're going to delete Aero 3, and make Aero 2 last way longer', we'd likely not be in this situation quite as deep as we are now

[Tigore]

I didn't even know which spell cooldowns got reduced during my time as WHM for Storm blood. Probably Assize got it the most?

[Kacho_Nacho]

I didn't even know which spell cooldowns got reduced during my time as WHM for Storm blood. Probably Assize got it the most?

I think you're right. It's been so long ago.

What sucks is, whenever you play FFXIV now, we are playing with the 7.0 versions of our classes/jobs. So, it's impossible to do a direct comparison between how healing was in the prior expansions and in Dawn Trail.

Thus, it's difficult to provide definitive suggestions on how to make healers better again.

[Aravell]

I’ve gotta ask, how is the PF green river in DT compared to SB for everyone? I mained AST back then, but I don’t recall the healer shortage being this bad back then.

I can't speak for the feedback of non-raiders back then, but if we're talking PF, then we're probably talking about savage raiders.

The general sentiment among the savage raiders back then was that SCH was a well-designed job which was also a tad bit overpowered, AST was a good, high ceiling job that can fill for either slot, WHM was a bit on the weaker side and could use some buffs along with a lily system rework.

So we had 2/3 healers that were fun and well-received and 1 healer that was meh and could be better. So knowing SE, instead of taking the more logical step of giving WHM strengths of their own, they instead nuked all 3 healers and forced them into the same box.

Doesn't take a genius to see why ShB upset so many healers.

[Tigore]

So far, it sounds like we should examine what worked in Stormblood and build from there for the 3 classes. From my time on the forums, this seems to be the closest collective voices that I am noticing.

WHM: It has too much emphasis on Holy animation magic. I mean, the Holy spell is still awesome from previous single player games. However, Square only got away with it because some of the popular White Mages were Summoners as well. Some big examples are Garnet (FF9), Eiko (FF9), and Yuna (FF10). Since Summoner exists as DPS already, it might be too late to make implementations like it unless the FF14 Summoner changes to something else. Borrowing Rosa's (FF4) Archery with Aim is kind of too late too since Bard took that. We used to have emphasis on Earth, Wind and Water magics too and the players want that back. It's a reason why ForsakenRoe's ideas have some momentum. Since it basically makes an Assize-like cooldown always proc Quake, Tornado and Flood / Tsunami even with the Holy upgrades. Another 15s cooldown with the Water / Banish idea and the Dia / Aero DoT timers dropping to 15s with higher initial burst damage should help to reduce the Glare animation spam too. The DoT being used more often will also have an indirect movement buff with needing to use an instant cast more often.

SCH: It's basically been a DoT Mage from the start. The SGE does step on those toes a bit, nowadays. The DPS spells requested are mostly what we had from the past. Bio, Miasma, Miasma 2 and Shadowflare as candidates. This just leaves the discussion on how the fairy links to our kits. It's hard for me to see a consensus for this part. The one thing agreed on is Dissipation should NOT "kill" the fairy and do something else to work with them.

AST: Believe or not, the RNG of the cards tends to be the defining factor for why healers choose this class. It keeps their mind engaged to pay attention to what cards they drew and decide accordingly. There is no doubt the current AST changes made them the strongest healer. Although it came at the price of removing some card RNG influence always drawing the same Solar and Lunar sets every minute. The solution players wanted was basically make all the cards strong in their own way while still having reliance on giving them to certain roles for slightly better gains. I only remember ForsakenRoe's suggestions again. I think she suggested we do away with the Combust DoT and add another set of 6 GCD minor card draws on a 15 - 30 second cooldown. As with the WHM potency calculations, the potency boost to using them over Malefic is 10 - 20, so the newer players can still spam Malefic with 90% ish DPS efficiency. Some of the cards were best for a tank to be given counter damage with a multi strike working best for the healers themselves.

SGE: This one is the harder one to devise a framework for since they obviously didn't exist for Stormblood. ForsakenRoe also suggested we do away with constraining healers to Being Regen verses Shield healers and plot a spectrum instead with how "pure" the healing is. I suggested we can expand on SCH's Protraction to help more with higher max HP and increased healing received being used instead of shields. This could allow SGE to focus more on the raw healing of Kardia and could potentially have weaker shield emphasis as a result if they can raise max HP and healing received as well as simply reduce damage taken as alternatives. There is also the Brewmaster Monk idea from Warcraft to convert a percentage of the initial damage taken into a DoT and purify some of this DoT damage so regens can manage it more easily. The Haima and Panhaima shields are very interesting for different healing mechanics and I believe some here say we should transfer those to our Diagnosis / Prognosis shields. It differentiates them from how SCH shields work and encourages using DPS moves to proc Kardia while the multi-shields are up. So far, I mostly remember ty_taurus contributing a lot to these ideas.

[Zehrylin]

The ping pong debuff losing stacks from each dispel I could have sworn was also in Warcraft at some point. Can't remember which boss. It reminds me of the Lich King fight, but that one might also be more so another strong DoT that drops when the ally is at 100% HP. I remember wipes from the DoT requiring 100% HP if the healers were caught with no initial HoT blanket on anyone. Once that plague DoT set in, the player target was just as good as dead with the ticks getting worse over time very fast.

Yup, I think it might have been Heroic Lich King fight, but it's why Disc Priests were incredibly valuable during that expansion. If you could get your shields beefy enough, it could negate a lot of the damage from that plague ability.