#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Kes13a]

"Healer gameplay should not be dominated by tank healing.

Healers play a critical role, and keeping tanks alive is part of what they bring to the table. However, healers contribute to the success of groups in many ways, especially in dungeons. They sustain the group, dispel harmful effects, and respond to burst damage, all while doing mechanics. Tank healing should not demand so much that it interferes with their other roles. It may take some iteration to get the balance right on this, where healers feel essential to tank survival but with their attention not overly demanded by it." ~ Taken from the same link

I am literally crying at this one T.T Like, this is what I really wanna do. Let me keep you alive, tank. Let me keep the party healthy and well, let me feel like I do things. Right now, with the current gameplay, all I do is spam 1 ability and throw some ogcd's in for heals and extra dps. I have been of the mindset of "well, if this is how se wants gameplay, then I at least want an extra attack or two so I don't fall asleep" mindset, but this post from WOW kinda fits exactly what I hope for in healer gameplay. And for the love all the gods, please, let me throw real buffs on the party -ded-

yeah, it was a very good read, and obviously from a group of developers that actually know and or PLAY healers/tanks. they really did hit the nail on the head, and while I havent heard of any huge disgruntlement from WoW, the devs do this? and here we sit with radio silence. rather telling overall

[Ruruura]

here you go. Even the vaunted WoW has noticed a problem with tanks being unkillable. a little knowledge of the issue goes a long way.

https://www.wowhead.com/blue-tracker...94517#24223979

Yes but as i said and i assume you know, in WoW tanks are literally unkillable even in completely unreasonable situations and can effectively and speedily solo current content.
FFXIV tanks are not even close to what WoW tanks are so pretending the issue is the same and tank self-sufficiency needs to go is ridiculous.

And i used WoW like i could use any other MMO where tank self-sufficiency is high, which is like 8 mmos out of 10.

Healer fantasy and fun should not come from tanks essentially becoming DPS players who can mitigate tank busters and can aggro a lot.

[Aravell]

God imagine if the 14 developers would ever actually justify their decisions like this and not be terrified of nerfs

It’s weird to be jealous of what the WOW devs are doing but this is so well thought out, makes total sense and considers all sides that it’s exactly what I’d want from this sort of change

You mean "terrified of nerfs unless they're nerfing SCH"?

I think SCH remains the only job that has gotten a direct nerf in recent memory.

[Supersnow845]

Yes but as i said and i assume you know, in WoW tanks are literally unkillable even in completely unreasonable situations and can effectively and speedily solo current content.
FFXIV tanks are not even close to what WoW tanks are so pretending the issue is the same and tank self-sufficiency needs to go is ridiculous.

And i used WoW like i could use any other MMO where tank self-sufficiency is high, which is like 8 mmos out of 10.

Healer fantasy and fun should not come from tanks essentially becoming DPS players who can mitigate tank busters and can aggro a lot.

And that’s our entire point

Tanks functionally don’t exist in this game as tanks, they are DPS with some mitigation and a lot of healing. You don’t want healer fantasy to reduce tanks to “DPS but ones who take the tankbusters” but that’s not healers fault, that’s them stripping out literally anything that actually make a tank a tank from 14’s tanks.

Denying healer gameplay in a hard trinity which is healing primarily of the tank because if you did it that way tanks would just be DPS isn’t a healer problem that’s a tank problem

[LyraShu]

Yes but as i said and i assume you know, in WoW tanks are literally unkillable even in completely unreasonable situations and can effectively and speedily solo current content.
FFXIV tanks are not even close to what WoW tanks are so pretending the issue is the same and tank self-sufficiency needs to go is ridiculous.

And i used WoW like i could use any other MMO where tank self-sufficiency is high, which is like 8 mmos out of 10.

Healer fantasy and fun should not come from tanks essentially becoming DPS players who can mitigate tank busters and can aggro a lot.

And I don't think we are saying the self-sustain needs to fully go, but I would say that there is a bit. In fact, if I want to be lazy and not care while I am in Deep dungeons, I play tank so I don't need to use potions. If I wanna actually have harder gameplay, I play dps.

Oh, and this is taken also from that wow page because they are saying all the right things~

"Tanks will still have strong answers to threats or periods of danger, but less sustained self-healing.

Tanks should have autonomy over their own survival and will still have cooldowns or emergency self-heals like Renewal or Impending Victory. But the healing of continuous effects like Elune’s Favored or Indomitable are reduced, so tanks must have more of a partnership with healers to restore their missing health once it’s lost."

[Ayan_Calvesse]

"Healer gameplay should not be dominated by tank healing.-----let me throw real buffs on the party -ded-

Honestly I feel this would be the path I would take with healers; I would transition them to a "support" model; currently the FF XIV dynamic is "shield or pure" for healers; but I would like to see generally all the roles start to vary more; however then you would begin to see more anal statics where they would only demand certain classes as the balance nightmare begins.

Myself I played a "Healer" for migard in DAOC; we provided buffs and most importantly a melee attack speed buff in a group of players that were most commonly melee-dps. So while I was healing I was also providing CC and this additional side job which felt good. I think looking at each of the role designations and making them fill some sort of sub-role would be nice; but being careful not to have the sub-role outshine the actual jobs roles. Its one of the reasons I am really reluctant to make healers in FF XIV a significant source of damage as it will then become a expectation and skill ceiling that will round up some decent healers but sub-par DPS dealers in the healing community. I worry given that "faster killing = faster winning" will just round out all the other sub-role healers however. Its why I always roll my eyes at the GNB/DRK as the damage Off-tank notion as generally the majority of them are not drastically outpacing paladins or warriors damage wise despite their lower survival.

[IDontPetLalas]

here you go. Even the vaunted WoW has noticed a problem with tanks being unkillable. a little knowledge of the issue goes a long way.

https://www.wowhead.com/blue-tracker...94517#24223979

Thanks, if only FFXIV would align in future with that.

[Ruruura]

The problem is that it is extremely hard to balance tanks to feel tanky and satisfying to play while also making them dependant on healers because you require me to hurt in order to play your fantasy, but me hurting too often kills my fantasy.
I do not think this problem could be solved without heavily redesigning all tanks around defense and party protection (Perhaps more mechanics requiring tanks to do stuff like paladin wings instead of the current wack-a-dodge)

But i do not have faith on them doing any of this, so what i fear is for them to just nerf us to appease you somewhat, and neither of us truly getting what we want, which is more likely what is going to happen.

[LyraShu]

The problem is that it is extremely hard to balance tanks to feel tanky and satisfying to play while also making them dependant on healers because you require me to hurt in order to play your fantasy, but me hurting too often kills my fantasy.
I do not think this problem could be solved without heavily redesigning all tanks around defense and party protection (Perhaps more mechanics requiring tanks to do stuff like paladin wings instead of the current wack-a-dodge)

But i do not have faith on them doing any of this, so what i fear is for them to just nerf us to appease you somewhat, and neither of us truly getting what we want, which is more likely what is going to happen.

Personally, I think that is kinda fair to say.

I will say that in the current day, I had to force myself to play healer for my friends and it was just because of the 100+ casts of my 1 ability in a trial, not really from the other job's abilities. I do get, quite often, poked at for trying to mit the tank during a tank buster though also in the current gameplay so I agree, there is a balance between too much self-sustain and not enough.

Really though, IF there is an answer that comes out from this, I just hope that it becomes an interesting change and one that doesn't invalidate anyone's jobs.

[aiqa]

The problem is that it is extremely hard to balance tanks to feel tanky and satisfying to play while also making them dependant on healers because you require me to hurt in order to play your fantasy, but me hurting too often kills my fantasy.
I do not think this problem could be solved without heavily redesigning all tanks around defense and party protection (Perhaps more mechanics requiring tanks to do stuff like paladin wings instead of the current wack-a-dodge)

But i do not have faith on them doing any of this, so what i fear is for them to just nerf us to appease you somewhat, and neither of us truly getting what we want, which is more likely what is going to happen.

Yeah it's fun being overpowered in a multiplayer game. But I hope you'll understand it's not a great look to ask for sympathy for your fears about losing that, from the role that is most effected by overtuned tanks. Other players are not just there as support characters for WAR tanks to enjoy their power fantasy.