#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Grann-Goro]

I don't inherently see the issue with tanks getting better sustain - maybe it's because I mainly play dark knight and don't get the luxuries that warrior or paladin have, but I'd kill for something more. if my healer falls I get screwed hard. i don't think the healer dying should always spell the end of a run. thematically i also think red mage needs a little something more than just verraise and vercure. i get it's a dps but also like... it's a red mage lol.

Yes it should (except of course if the death of the healer happens when the ennemy is almost dead). That's why the healer is here in the first place. He/she is the lung of the team. He/she provides the vital oxygen.
However the other party members should be able to do more in order to prevent the healer from dying when he/she is in danger. The healer isn't supposed to bear the life of the team alone.
That's why "one-shot mecanics" are not really good in my opinion... It's too stressful for the healer, and by extend the for whole team, who has to pray for the healer to survive.

[itsnep]

Yes it should (except of course if the death of the healer happens when the ennemy is almost dead). That's why the healer is here in the first place. He/she is the lung of the team. He/she provides the vital oxygen.
However the other party members should be able to do more in order to prevent the healer from dying when he/she is in danger. The healer isn't supposed to bear the life of the team alone.
That's why "one-shot mecanics" are not really good in my opinion... It's too stressful for the healer, and by extend the whole team who has to pray for the healer to survive.

sure, if the boss is at full or even half health and the healer dies i don't expect the rest of the team to solo it, but as a tank i should be given enough sustain to be able to finish the fight after a certain threshold is met. dark knight gets virtually nothing but mitigation, and it even has less than other tanks. it's incredibly frustrating to get through a tough bout only for the healer to die close enough to the end but still a little too early to reliably finish off a boss, even more so if they can't get a grasp on the mechanics after dying to them multiple times. do you think if your white mage dies in a classic final fantasy title you shouldn't be able to beat the boss there either? to that extent phoenix downs should be usable in combat. genuinely has always frustrated me that they are in the game yet ridiculously limited despite being such an iconic part of the series.

[aiqa]

I don't inherently see the issue with tanks getting better sustain - maybe it's because I mainly play dark knight and don't get the luxuries that warrior or paladin have, but I'd kill for something more. if my healer falls I get screwed hard. i don't think the healer dying should always spell the end of a run. thematically i also think red mage needs a little something more than just verraise and vercure. i get it's a dps but also like... it's a red mage lol.

It's not a problem as long the optimal way to run any team content is with a full trinity team. If you dilute the unique qualities of the roles to much it gets more difficult to balance the content such that it still requires a full trinity team. It's obvious we are quite a bit beyond that point, every other dungeon in EW already made healer feel like an overly simple and weak dps job.

And there is no reason for why the tank heals in your example have to be inherent/ogcd. If tank/dps heals all lowered their damage output significant but heals from healers did not, that would make it far easier to design content where a full trinity team is optimal, while still giving tank/dps the emergy heals you wanted.

sure, if the boss is at full or even half health and the healer dies i don't expect the rest of the team to solo it.

Alright, then we basically agree. The issue people have with tank sustain is that in particular WAR can do that easily. Not only keeping itself alive but also the rest of the team.

[Ayalu]

There are certain design paradoxes that make it neccesary that the goal or the design shifts.
You cant have a Healer Design that just focuses on healing while there is no need for that, while also being there for failstates when they dont want to have them.
We are not even allowed to be the dominant Supporter otherwise we would have a arsenal of goodies and tools for diverse buffs, debuffs, control and what ever.

When Healers are not suppose to have much damage options which in itself isnt that bad ,even when it makes it more monotone in MSQ stuff, but then there need to be something different for us to do besides the mini DPS.

[Grann-Goro]

sure, if the boss is at full or even half health and the healer dies i don't expect the rest of the team to solo it, but as a tank i should be given enough sustain to be able to finish the fight after a certain threshold is met. dark knight gets virtually nothing but mitigation, and it even has less than other tanks. it's incredibly frustrating to get through a tough bout only for the healer to die close enough to the end but still a little too early to reliably finish off a boss, even more so if they can't get a grasp on the mechanics after dying to them multiple times. do you think if your white mage dies in a classic final fantasy title you shouldn't be able to beat the boss there either? to that extent phoenix downs should be usable in combat. genuinely has always frustrated me that they are in the game yet ridiculously limited despite being such an iconic part of the series.

Yup, I agree with you about this ! ^_^
As long as each player is limited to one phoenix down in his bag and/or it has a cast time, I don't think it would be overpowered.

In my opinion, there is a quite big flaw in FFXIV boss-design from the very beginning : the fact that only healers can rez (almost) combined with one-shot mecanics everywhere.
Because of this, we can regularly see two opposite scenarios, but none of them is good :

Case number 1 : if the healer dies, the team dies.
Like I said before, this scenario is very frustrating for DPS and tanks if the healer dies on a one-shot mecanic, because they have to accept the fight must start over, even if they did nothing wrong. They just couldn't do anything to save their healer and they can't rez him/her either.

Case number 2 : the team can survive without the healer (that's what we see now when the tank is a paladin or a warrior).
This time, it's very frustrating for the healer, because he/she loses his/her role, and in addition to this he/she must accept to purely stop playing and miss the fight entirely if he/she ever dies. The team will just continue the fight whitout him/her (because they can !), plus they can't rez him/her.

[Ryaduera]

Yes it should (except of course if the death of the healer happens when the ennemy is almost dead). That's why the healer is here in the first place. He/she is the lung of the team. He/she provides the vital oxygen.
However the other party members should be able to do more in order to prevent the healer from dying when he/she is in danger. The healer isn't supposed to bear the life of the team alone.
That's why "one-shot mecanics" are not really good in my opinion... It's too stressful for the healer, and by extend the whole team who has to pray for the healer to survive.

And if I have to protect the healer more diligently, Cover serves a purpose again. My power fantasy when I play tank is to protect. I fully support this. As a tank, I want to protect the healer, too.

[Grann-Goro]

And if I have to protect the healer more diligently, Cover serves a purpose again. My power fantasy when I play tank is to protect. I fully support this. As a tank, I want to protect the healer, too.

I agree that "Cover" is one of the coolest tool, but sadly we almost never have the opportunity to use it.

[itsnep]

Yup, I agree with you about this ! ^_^
As long as each player is limited to one phoenix down in his bag and/or has a cast time, I don't think it would be overpowered.

In my opinion, there is a quite big flaw in FFXIV boss-design from the very beginning : the fact that only healers can rez (almost) combined with one-shot mecanics everywhere.
Because of this, we can regularly see two opposite scenarios, but none of them is good :

Case number 1 : if the healer dies, the team dies.
Like I said before, the scenario is very frustrating for DPS and tanks if the healer dies on a one-shot mecanic, because they have to accept the fight must start over, even if they did nothing wrong. They just couldn't do nothing to save their healer and they can't rez him/her either.

Case number 2 : the team can survive without the healer (that's what we see now when the tank is a paladin or a warrior).
This time, it's very frustrating for the healer, because he/she loses his/her role, and in addition to this he/she must accept to purely stop playing and miss the fight entirely if he/she ever dies on a one-shot mecanic. The team will just continue the fight whitout him/her (because they can !), plus they can't rez him/her.

that's entirely fair. maybe turn the down into a one-use key item per duty.

i definitely get the healer perspective, and i didn't realize it was as bad as it was until skimming through this thread. i've really only played the classes at lower levels (60 max). my experience as a tank is mostly as a dark knight so i am used to needing my support to be on top of things, and figured the only difference between jobs was that the healer had a slightly easier workload.

my fear now is that what little bit of regen i got this expac will be taken away lol.

[Chasingstars]

I don't think the strike is working as people think it is. While true there are longer queue times, that can also just dismissed by the fact its double dps jobs for this expansion. After all, it was a known issue back in the day of long queue times with Stormblood where healers and tanks were playing the new, at the time, dps jobs of Red Mage and Samurai.

That it can honestly be chalked up to as a coincidence for long queue times.

[sindriiisgaming]

The intent of the strike is to get attention for the complaints healers have had for years. It already worked.

oh youve received attention alright, something you also complained about on a sub thread. how you felt the streamers made fun of you and didnt fairly represent you. thats the attention you recieved. just read xenosys and zeplas comments sections. mr happy called it a joke. cole said he couldn't take it seriously. you received plenty attention. but 0 support from any large backer

There is 0 chance the devs are unaware of the strike

if a chance is 0 its no longer a chance its a guarantee. what you're saying is that you can categorically guarantee me that the devs have seen your strike. until yoshiP confirms he has seen this, im afraid that is NOT something you can do.

We have no further influence on what the devs will do. And that is fine.

if its fine then why are you bothering. when yoshiP says nothing is changing will it be fine then?

We have no way or intent to force other players to stop playing a role they still enjoy. And that is fine.

because you say WE here, i am going to hold you accountable for the rest of this little movements actions. you have attacked and made fools of the people who do not support the strike. argued in bad faith and vitriol. which you can find examples on all over this and other related threads.

And I am very sure that people giving feedback about healers aren't trying to adhere to your opinions about when it's worth giving feedback, or how they should give that feedback

except these are not MY opinions. these are yoshidas words himself. remember the mandervil relics? he decided that they were good for the game because the number of players getting the achievements was high. did he care about the counter argument. no. he continued to release more and more tomestone relic Stages

You (and other people trying do to the same) are a useful vehicle to keep the thread visible, but that is about all you are to me.

okay griffith.

if you really wanted to send yoshi P a message youd have rallied for nobody to play the job even to level it. but of course then u cant walk around or afk with your pretty glams or help your fc mates. and when savages come back into cycle i think suddenly you'll fall completely silent on this topic