#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Iedarus]

That’s exactly what ShB WHM was and the community absolutely hated it because they refused to see that Lily’s were an absolute gain because they were movement tools and weave slots even if they were immediate losses

If memory serves, lilies were a loss up until EW because the potency of Misery didn't match the 3 GCD dps deficit. Instead of just making lilies neutral, CBU3 decided to make all cast times faster on top of that change. People were only complaining about Misery's potency and the team overcompensated.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

If memory serves, lilies were a loss up until EW because the potency of Misery didn't match the 3 GCD dps deficit. Instead of just making lilies neutral, CBU3 decided to make all cast times faster on top of that change. People were only complaining about Misery's potency and the team overcompensated.

I don't think possible to make lily anymore 'neutral' than today's iteration due to the nature of 2m raidbuff consolidation across all the jobs (it's still not outright neutral lol). It's just straight up a gain now so long 1 misery can be dumped into the window.

I personally still maintain the idea that the abundance of lossless heal introduced from AST's kit was a mistake. There should be lossless healing but they should be kept in check rather than given to us like candies. 75p loss on using lily wouldn't be seen as badly as today if heal button aren't so black and white.

[Azurarok]

I was rarely averse to using GCD heals with AST even in ShB since it was just normal to lose personal dps by healing with the other two. They also added Horoscope then, which just encourages using either Helios too, so the overall design certainly didn't feel like they wanted us to do lossless healing, at least.

[Kacho_Nacho]

I was rarely averse to using GCD heals with AST even in ShB since it was just normal to lose personal dps by healing with the other two. They also added Horoscope then, which just encourages using either Helios too, so the overall design certainly didn't feel like they wanted us to do lossless healing, at least.

I agree. Honestly, I've never seen the big deal about losing personal dps if I chose to throw out GCD heals. After all, isn't that part of the whole idea of playing a healer? Getting to decide which is a better contribution to the party's success, improving the health of the characters versus damaging the mobs/bosses?

The philosophy held by Square Enix that making these kind of decisions is too stressful to the players is wrong. We require this decision making in order to be engaged with the game. When things are too easy, players are bored. Nobody plays a game to be bored.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

I was rarely averse to using GCD heals with AST even in ShB since it was just normal to lose personal dps by healing with the other two. They also added Horoscope then, which just encourages using either Helios too, so the overall design certainly didn't feel like they wanted us to do lossless healing, at least.

Apart from horoscope and the overpowered neutral sect at the time, I remember having my ear bleeding in ShB days because people often screamed they wanted to do lossless healing like AST. CU, CO, CI, Earthly Star, uncharged Horoscope, & Essentials were all free to use due to the nature of their built in 1.5s at that time, whereas WHM and SCH had to 'pay' to a lesser extent to use their oGCDs outside 30s DoT refresh window. They 'felt bad' having to pay for said loss because XYZ had some way to do it lossless'y. Well, look what we get today lmao.

[Supersnow845]

Apart from horoscope and the overpowered neutral sect at the time, I remember having my ear bleeding in ShB days because people often screamed they wanted to do lossless healing like AST. CU, CO, CI, Earthly Star, uncharged Horoscope, & Essentials were all free to use due to the nature of their built in 1.5s at that time, whereas WHM and SCH had to 'pay' to a lesser extent to use their oGCDs outside 30s DoT refresh window. They 'felt bad' having to pay for said loss because XYZ had some way to do it lossless'y. Well, look what we get today lmao.

This pretty much sums up the ShB healer design problem. AST was the problem child yet they decided to model everyone after AST rather than bring AST back in line with the others

[GartredZW]

Speaking of which, I understand there's folks who don't want it changed back now, but were there threads and posts demanding for the 1.5s cast across the role on the english boards in the past? I recall finding a thread discussing reducing the cast time a little bit to make slidecasting easier, but its OP explicitly stated they didn't want it to be enough to include the weave.

That's really the crux of the issue. Some people want short-casts, but don't want to just play Astrologian for some reason, so they start demanding that other healers be changed to accommodate that. They see that little bit of nuance in gameplay to be a flaw instead of a feature.

[Azurarok]

to be honest I'm not so against lossless healing in of itself, and am more bothered by the fact they decided they do it exactly the same way AST did when WHM had lilies and SCH had RuinII + Energy Drain

And despite all that SGE adderstings aren't dps neutral

[Supersnow845]

That’s the problem. Energy drain and ruin 2 as well as Lilys were ways to generate weave space (you can also include miasma 2 when SCH had mana management) that you were compensated for to overcome restrictions. the idea of AST having 1.5 was because it had so many weaves with its cards but it also allowed for free healing

Honestly instead of everyone getting 1.5 AST should have swapped to 2.5 and and be given the extra charge of lightspeed it has now to compensate for its card weaves without really giving it free reign to have limitless free healing

[Azurarok]

ah, didn't realize the 1.5 cast was introduced to AST in 4.3. Other than Lightspeed I'm guessing they used Combust and Aspected Benefic to do it in HW, but then they merged the DoTs in SB, and with CombustII at 30s that reduced weaves, so that was the solution (to a problem they made). It seemed the system back then didn't call for the busy raid buff that requires constant weaves across a few GCDs either, so lightspeed probably functioned better as a healing tool too.