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  1. #1
    Player
    Aravell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    2,012
    Character
    J'thaldi Rhid
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemina View Post
    This strike is a protest. As such, it is not intended to disrupt the game or the players who have subscribed to FFXIV.
    Again, I think people keep missing this part of the OP.

    The point is that people who participate are tired of playing healers, so we just don't play them or play far less of them, the aim has never been to disrupt the queue system, I don't know where people keep getting that from.
    (3)

  2. #2
    Player
    Nadda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2021
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    349
    Character
    Nadda Daweel
    World
    Louisoix
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Aravell View Post
    Again, I think people keep missing this part of the OP.

    The point is that people who participate are tired of playing healers, so we just don't play them or play far less of them, the aim has never been to disrupt the queue system, I don't know where people keep getting that from.
    I think the notion of not disrupting play came after as damage control... hard to tell my memory is fuzzy but we'll operate under the assumption that wasn't the intent. (in otherwords you're correct and I'm a silly)

    Still the idea is for healers mains to not heal which would have a negative affect (in theory) to queue times.

    Now I don't know how effective that has been in terms of participation.

    Like most things on the Forum there are issues and points I resonate with even with the healer strike. But it's packaged in such an icky way.
    Then again I know what it's like to be emotionally captured by things we find important so it's not for me to judge.
    At the very least there is an effort for change rather than accepting things the way they are, or doomposting.

    Even with 8.0 I'm not sure how much jobs will change. Will they go the pictomancer route? If Healers will need to move more we might then have more heal/damage buttons on the go. That be kinda cool.
    If there's more movement that could also mean they could do things like out going damage where we're just pumping stuff out and have really intense heal checks that maybe aren't possible with current design.
    (1)

  3. #3
    Player
    Supersnow845's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    6,688
    Character
    Andreas Cestelle
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Nadda View Post
    I think the notion of not disrupting play came after as damage control... hard to tell my memory is fuzzy but we'll operate under the assumption that wasn't the intent. (in otherwords you're correct and I'm a silly)

    Still the idea is for healers mains to not heal which would have a negative affect (in theory) to queue times.

    Now I don't know how effective that has been in terms of participation.

    Like most things on the Forum there are issues and points I resonate with even with the healer strike. But it's packaged in such an icky way.
    Then again I know what it's like to be emotionally captured by things we find important so it's not for me to judge.
    At the very least there is an effort for change rather than accepting things the way they are, or doomposting.

    Even with 8.0 I'm not sure how much jobs will change. Will they go the pictomancer route? If Healers will need to move more we might then have more heal/damage buttons on the go. That be kinda cool.
    If there's more movement that could also mean they could do things like out going damage where we're just pumping stuff out and have really intense heal checks that maybe aren't possible with current design.
    The reason why it’s “packaged in such an icky format” is because the healer forums is a veritable necropolis of well intended feedback packaged the “right way”
    (8)
    As a healer main in this game for nigh on 14 years all I can say is that I’m tired. My role has been eroded of complexity and expression for 3 expansions. I’ve watched the tanks do my role for me for 2 expansions and my feedback and critiques continue to fall on deaf ears.

    I have no idea who modern healers are designed for but I know now it’s not me. This is the first expansion I’m truly considering dropping the healer role and not returning, so if that was the goal- congratulations I guess

  4. #4
    Player
    Nadda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2021
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    349
    Character
    Nadda Daweel
    World
    Louisoix
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Supersnow845 View Post
    The reason why it’s “packaged in such an icky format” is because the healer forums is a veritable necropolis of well intended feedback packaged the “right way”
    I happen to appreciate the well-intended variety. It's the Jam thumbdrop cookie of critique.

    Anyways to keep things more productive on healing and less about my cookie analogies.

    I'm curious and have been speculating that Pictomancer as a kind of benchmark for what future 8.0 design. As I can't imagine they'd make Pictomancer the way it is just to drastically change it the next expansion. Of course that has happened before... to many... many jobs.

    I wonder what a mobile world for casting looks like far as healers are concerned.

    The reason I brought it up is that in a world of mobile casting spells for healers can be more versatile and if they are more versatile ... you could be damaging on the move but also... healing more on the move.

    Free-er movement would make traditional mechanics dodging trivial which could inject more outgoing damage as part of encounter design.

    That be pretty interesting.
    (0)

  5. #5
    Player
    Supersnow845's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    6,688
    Character
    Andreas Cestelle
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Nadda View Post
    I happen to appreciate the well-intended variety. It's the Jam thumbdrop cookie of critique.

    Anyways to keep things more productive on healing and less about my cookie analogies.

    I'm curious and have been speculating that Pictomancer as a kind of benchmark for what future 8.0 design. As I can't imagine they'd make Pictomancer the way it is just to drastically change it the next expansion. Of course that has happened before... to many... many jobs.

    I wonder what a mobile world for casting looks like far as healers are concerned.

    The reason I brought it up is that in a world of mobile casting spells for healers can be more versatile and if they are more versatile ... you could be damaging on the move but also... healing more on the move.

    Free-er movement would make traditional mechanics dodging trivial which could inject more outgoing damage as part of encounter design.

    That be pretty interesting.
    They have already ruined PCT as it is. It’s definitely not a paradigm of job design, it was just another in the long line of accidents square accidentally made fun
    (2)
    As a healer main in this game for nigh on 14 years all I can say is that I’m tired. My role has been eroded of complexity and expression for 3 expansions. I’ve watched the tanks do my role for me for 2 expansions and my feedback and critiques continue to fall on deaf ears.

    I have no idea who modern healers are designed for but I know now it’s not me. This is the first expansion I’m truly considering dropping the healer role and not returning, so if that was the goal- congratulations I guess

  6. #6
    Player
    ForsakenRoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Posts
    2,340
    Character
    Samantha Redgrayve
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 100
    Don't act like RDM doesn't have its own issues, too. Reprise has been a mess of a button for years, and you lose Dualcast anytime you use literally anything, including pressing Sprint or a Potion.

    What Snow means is, imagine if on RDM, it's optimal gameplay in most situations, to skip pressing the 1-2 of your melee 123 combo, and instead you get your 3 Mana Stacks by pressing 333 (which works and costs less Black/White Mana). Or that you ignore the 123 entirely, and use Moulinet (the AOE version) to build up to VerFlare/VerHoly, even in Single Target situations. The Job functions, and does good damage, but it seems kinda stupid to have a 123 combo and then not use part of it, right?

    Or, imagine if Resolution wasn't worth pressing, so every Melee combo, you just skip that final step?

    The nerfs done were overboard. SE didn't need to go so hard as to make Filler>all as they have. They could have, for example, moved 200p off of each of the Muses, the Mog, the Madeen, and made a new OGCD that can be used after hitting Star Prism with 900p. This would have the same Potency-Per-X-Seconds (it all lines up at 480s), but more potency would be in the raidbuff window, which actually indirectly buffs other Jobs' numbers on the funny site, as their raidbuff would now benefit even more from a PCT's burst. This change would have been a pseudo-buff to uptime fighting as PCT, and a pretty heavy blow (but not as heavyhanded as SE's changes) to downtime situations.

    Another case of SE using the 'When all you have is a hammer (motif), everything looks like a nail' way of balancing things, methinks

    Quote Originally Posted by Nadda View Post
    I wonder what a mobile world for casting looks like far as healers are concerned.

    The reason I brought it up is that in a world of mobile casting spells for healers can be more versatile and if they are more versatile ... you could be damaging on the move but also... healing more on the move.

    Free-er movement would make traditional mechanics dodging trivial which could inject more outgoing damage as part of encounter design.

    That be pretty interesting.
    I'd expect it'd look something like this.

    With the addition of just two buttons (and the reduction in DOT duration so we press it more), WHM would become up to 60% instant-casts (in the chart at the bottom, only Glare3 and Quake would have cast times). We would be so mobile, that Aetherial Shift wouldn't even feel like a useful addition anymore.

    The SGE idea in there also has a lot of mobility potential, due to Eukrasian Dosis dealing the same upfront potency as Dosis (allowing instantcasts whenever, for an MP cost), a reworked Krasis that allows for 4 instantcasts in a row (for an MP cost), and two new GCD actions that are instantcast (one a Line AOE and one a Cone, so there's a slight range restriction to one of them). By pressing Krasis beforehand for the instantcasts it'd provide, your entire burst window under this design (which takes 20s to do) would be entirely made up of instantcasts

    Making the challenge of optimization come from the job itself again, rather than 'can you stand still and spam your one filler button more', would be a good thing for the role I think. I don't find SCH fun in prog because I'm forced to stand still and press Broil as many times as I can, I find the fun in prog to come from 'how do my healing actions interact with one another, and how can I get the greatest result from the sum of all these different parts'
    (2)
    Last edited by ForsakenRoe; 03-26-2025 at 10:55 PM.

  7. #7
    Player
    Lorika's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2024
    Posts
    385
    Character
    Kaeline Artelus
    World
    Phantom
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 74
    Quote Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe View Post
    Don't act like RDM doesn't have its own issues, too. Reprise has been a mess of a button for years, and you lose Dualcast anytime you use literally anything, including pressing Sprint or a Potion.'
    Yeah i know, and it's far from being the only timer/proc being dismissed when you press others skills than the intended one.... oh and you can add also the fact that RDM is now the less mobile caster, is the only one without a personal shield, a measly 5% buff, the useless magical mit, the heal you only use when you make a mistake and you know that the healer is lobotimzed after being forced to spam 1 for several minutes, the rez that you use only when you have a very bad party or on the first week of new trials.... Oh and don't forget the actual patch note, you know the one where we only get +100p on 2 skills but no change at all on our splash damages like a lot of others DPS have.

    And last but not least : the actual parsing of the PCT are still completly off the charts....

    So yeah, i won't cry or pity them.
    If they are trully unhappy, then they should change their main job.... Oh wait! No other DPS come closes to them in term of numbers.

    After all this years i'm still sticking with the RDM and healers.
    While i still have a freaking ton of fun with the former (despite all it's short commings.... it's still one of the job with the most strongest identity of the game, with awesome SFX/VFX and the best job armor ), i can't really say the same anymore with the later.
    (0)
    Last edited by Lorika; 03-26-2025 at 11:11 PM.

  8. #8
    Player
    Supersnow845's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    6,688
    Character
    Andreas Cestelle
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorika View Post
    Yeah i know, and it's far from being the only timer/proc being dismissed when you press others skills than the intended one.... oh and you can add also the fact that RDM is now the less mobile caster, is the only one without a personal shield, a measly 5% buff, the useless magical mit, the heal you only use when you make a mistake and you know that the healer is lobotimzed after being forced to spam 1 for several minutes, the rez that you use only when you have a very bad party or on the first week of new trials.... Oh and don't forget the actual patch note, you know the one where we only get +100p on 2 skills but no change at all on our splash damages like a lot of others DPS have.

    And last but not least : the actual parsing of the PCT are still completly off the charts....

    So yeah, i won't cry or pity them.
    If they are trully unhappy, then they should change their main job.... Oh wait! No other DPS come closes to them in term of numbers.

    After all this years i'm still sticking with the RDM and healers.
    While i still have a freaking ton of fun with the former (despite all it's short commings.... it's still one of the job with the most strongest identity of the game, with awesome SFX/VFX and the best job armor ), i can't really say the same anymore with the later.
    Why do you think a job “deserves” to have its gameplay ruined just because it does good damage (and spoiler PCT is only really doing mid to low melee damage now)

    Their stated aim was to nerf PCT and especially nerf its potential in FRU. They did that…….and ruined the job identity in the process. The identity isn’t “stronger than anyone else”, the identity is painting which is now basically discouraged

    My original point was they ruined PCT’s identity, I don’t know why it still being numerically superior to RDM factors into this conversation at all. Would you accept the removal of mana balancing and making the melee combo superficial if it meant you could do melee numbers? If not why should PCT give up its identity because they went overboard with the design of the nerf
    (3)

  9. #9
    Player
    Azurarok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2022
    Posts
    976
    Character
    Medim Azurarok
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 100
    It's fine RDM's probably next in line.

    If we can't even emphasize with other jobs getting butchered to hell we all deserve to get it.
    (1)

  10. #10
    Player
    Lorika's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2024
    Posts
    385
    Character
    Kaeline Artelus
    World
    Phantom
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 74
    Quote Originally Posted by Azurarok View Post
    It's fine RDM's probably next in line.

    If we can't even emphasize with other jobs getting butchered to hell we all deserve to get it.
    Because we already jave so many problems that SE never adressed in years.... And every patch the feeling of being an abandonned job is more an more visible.
    RDM, SMN, Healers and Ranged Phys seems to not exist for the Dev. And do you think that most of PCT palyers emphasizes with the others jobs players?
    Hell no! now they are crying because of the nerf..... While doesn't even realize that compared to the MCH nerf, or the the hatred for this job from the dev, their is laughable

    Quote Originally Posted by Supersnow845 View Post
    Why do you think a job “deserves” to have its gameplay ruined just because it does good damage (and spoiler PCT is only really doing mid to low melee damage now)

    Their stated aim was to nerf PCT and especially nerf its potential in FRU. They did that…….and ruined the job identity in the process. The identity isn’t “stronger than anyone else”, the identity is painting which is now basically discouraged

    My original point was they ruined PCT’s identity, I don’t know why it still being numerically superior to RDM factors into this conversation at all. Would you accept the removal of mana balancing and making the melee combo superficial if it meant you could do melee numbers? If not why should PCT give up its identity because they went overboard with the design of the nerf
    Why deserved? for almost a year PCT was the job with highest DPS, really good utility, very mobile.... As for the Gameplay, well, i find it boring and didn't got any fun with it, so i can't really comment on it.

    So, yeah, the nerf was deserved. Was it well done? maybe not.
    But, now PCT players know how it feel to tbe a SMN, a Ranged Phys, a Healers.... But do they care? probably not.... They crying while still being on TOp DPS wise (yeah PCT is still on top)
    (0)
    Last edited by Lorika; 03-27-2025 at 12:38 AM.

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