#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Absurdity]

Some levels of "free" tank healing skills are fine no one complained about aurora in shadowbringers despite it not really having any trade offs, it's more the amount on tanks that is too much rather then tanks having any non "free" healing skills, there doesn't need to be a "cost" for tank healing skills, there just needs to be less

Warrior is a Prime example of just having free healing skills if you look at its toolkit literally every one of it's skills has a some form of healing I do think warrior can keep some of its "free" healing, but it needs to be toned down alot, also having aoe per hit heal effects is just unhealthy and trivializes any sort of "pull" a dungeon has.

It simply needs to go back to pre-ShB, where it's healing came at a cost.

Equilibrium only healed in Defiance, coming with the cost of either losing damage or having to use another long cooldown to temporarily disable the damage penalty from Defiance.
Inner Beast came with both short mitigation and strong life leech, but at the cost of not being able to spend the gauge on Fell Cleave instead.
The only healing that was technically free was the 20% HP restore from Thrill of Battle, but using it for the healing meant losing it as a mitigation tool.

And if you needed really strong self-healing to survive on your own you needed to waste Inner Release on spamming Inner Beast instead of Fell Cleave, a huge dps loss.
Made you think twice about using your own healing tools instead of relying on the healers in your party, but you still had access to it if absolutely necessary.

[Supersnow845]

It simply needs to go back to pre-ShB, where it's healing came at a cost.

Equilibrium only healed in Defiance, coming with the cost of either losing damage or having to use another long cooldown to temporarily disable the damage penalty from Defiance.
Inner Beast came with both short mitigation and strong life leech, but at the cost of not being able to spend the gauge on Fell Cleave instead.
The only healing that was technically free was the 20% HP restore from Thrill of Battle, but using it for the healing meant losing it as a mitigation tool.

Thrill also expires. It’s why shields on tanks are generally well balanced. Because if they aren't used for soaking a TB they expire with no healing actually applied

[Gurgeh]

It simply needs to go back to pre-ShB, where it's healing came at a cost.

...

And if you needed really strong self-healing to survive on your own you needed to waste Inner Release on spamming Inner Beast instead of Fell Cleave, a huge dps loss.
Made you think twice about using your own healing tools instead of relying on the healers in your party, but you still had access to it if absolutely necessary.

Agreed 100%. They need to start making healing a painful DPS loss for tanks. PLD always had a good heal, but even in casual it wasn't used heavily because it was considered uncool, to stand there Infront of everyone and your healer, healing yourself not even getting your combos out. (Also your MP will dry up).

[Rithy255]

It simply needs to go back to pre-ShB, where it's healing came at a cost.

Equilibrium only healed in Defiance, coming with the cost of either losing damage or having to use another long cooldown to temporarily disable the damage penalty from Defiance.
Inner Beast came with both short mitigation and strong life leech, but at the cost of not being able to spend the gauge on Fell Cleave instead.
The only healing that was technically free was the 20% HP restore from Thrill of Battle, but using it for the healing meant losing it as a mitigation tool.

And if you needed really strong self-healing to survive on your own you needed to waste Inner Release on spamming Inner Beast instead of Fell Cleave, a huge dps loss.
Made you think twice about using your own healing tools instead of relying on the healers in your party, but you still had access to it if absolutely necessary.

No it doesn't need to go to pre-SHB, I really find it odd that a lot of you will insist that sustain needs this massive downside, more then the fact that tanks just simply have a bit too much especially warrior, Equilibrium is actually a good example of a cooldown that is fine on it's own (maybe take off the regen added in EW lol) but the issue is that warrior has tons and tons upon it so it becomes a self and target sustain monster.

Not to say there can't be some situationally useful sustain cooldowns such as Clemency, but at the same time can we stop trying to argue that things like aurora (which again falls under the "free heal") is a problematic cooldown on its own.

This is like me saying healers should have to cast a gcd to help tank with a mitigation if the tank doesn't wanna use mits but in reality it's fine if healers have free cooldowns, the issue is again they have too many of the same thing where your never actually playing around your cooldowns and have fallback options because you already got so much.

Funnily enough it's a team based game tanks and healers should be working together to keep the tank and party alive and funnily enough tanks don't have to encroach on healer design even when having healing cooldowns if designed properly, but in reality it's because of the abundance of healing that we have on tanks like warrior it does encroach on that design currently.

[CaptainLagbeard]

Some levels of "free" tank healing skills are fine no one complained about aurora in shadowbringers despite it not really having any trade offs, it's more the amount on tanks that is too much rather then tanks having any non "free" healing skills, there doesn't need to be a "cost" for tank healing skills, there just needs to be less

Aurora when it was first introduced wasn't really all that strong... 200 potency regen with a 18s duration (6 ticks, 1200 total healing potency) and 60s CD. It's been buffed twice since, to get it's second charge to make it usable more often and an extra 100 potency to take it a 1800 total... And also EW added Corundum, and in DT every tank got some form of heal attached to their Job specific mit skill.
Just take aurora back to what it was on ShB launch, maybe even increase it's CD, and that skill is fine.

One of the steps to fix stuff is definitely just start taking healing away from tanks.
WAR can keep their self-heals, since that's more or less part of the jobs identity but take away their ability to heal the party.
PLD can keep Clemency, but don't half it's cost and keep it at 4k MP cost. Remove the heal from Divine Veil. Nerf the regen on Sheltron/Intervention. And just get rid of Divine Magic Mastery II.
DRK was fine before DT.
GNB, nerf Aurora back to ShB and cut down Corundum's heal's potency.

And in general, just get nerf the heals from all the tanks level 92 version of their Job specific mit.

[Rithy255]

Aurora when it was first introduced wasn't really all that strong... 200 potency regen with a 18s duration (6 ticks, 1200 total healing potency) and 60s CD. It's been buffed twice since, to get it's second charge to make it usable more often and an extra 100 potency to take it a 1800 total... And also EW added Corundum, and in DT every tank got some form of heal attached to their Job specific mit skill.
Just take aurora back to what it was on ShB launch, maybe even increase it's CD, and that skill is fine.

One of the steps to fix stuff is definitely just start taking healing away from tanks.
WAR can keep their self-heals, since that's more or less part of the jobs identity but take away their ability to heal the party.
PLD can keep Clemency, but don't half it's cost and keep it at 4k MP cost. Remove the heal from Divine Veil. Nerf the regen on Sheltron/Intervention. And just get rid of Divine Magic Mastery II.
DRK was fine before DT.
GNB, nerf Aurora back to ShB and cut down Corundum's heal's potency.

And in general, just get nerf the heals from all the tanks level 92 version of their Job specific mit.

even old Aurora was "free sustain" which is my point entirely that some amount of free sustain has always been fine, not to say it hasn't been buffed hence why i didn't even mention some buffs its gotten.

I feel like it's odd that you would suggest to basically remove all sustain from paladin and nerf clemency then say eh just make sure warrior can't heal others but keep it's strong self healing, idk seems a bit bias like "who cares about PLD as long as we keep warriors self healing identity". I personally think healing from magic attacks needs to go, maybe veil? but if we were to nerf tanks self healing warrior should be the first one looked at imo.

I also don't think like DRK really even is a issue with sustain... like having one excog tied to a 120's ability and a 500 potency heal on a attack doesn't strike me as OP.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Trying to argue which ones are the 'larger issue' seems moot at this point as their ignorance over the year has literally made all these seemingly 'small issues' festers up to what we're seeing today.

Rectify all of that. No quarters.

[Supersnow845]

Tanks have been proverbially useless since they removed agro management to the point they basically have no unique mechanics. The reason that’s a healer problem is because in exchange for tank mechanics they basically made them into healers with more bulk that also do more damage

The game has a wider encounter issue where they don’t take advantage of the trinity which affects all roles except pure DPS (ie support DPS suffer as well) the tank problem relative to healers is the fact that in exchange for no tank mechanics they just gave tanks healer mechanics

[CSX]

This seems like a very passionate discussion but I would like to make a worthless post to acknowledge these funny tags rofl! Love it!

[TheDustyOne]

I've seen a few more people nowadays arguing against Clemency, and I can kinda get why, especially with how much tanks have been encroaching on healing, but I'd argue that it's not Clemency that's the problem, but instead the free heals from Holy Spirit and blades combo.

Clemency typically had a large DPS loss associated; eating into req time/stacks, eating MP that needed to be saved for Holy Spirit, breaking combo, etc. With EW, Holy Spirit cost less MP, so there was room to cast a Clemency or 2 without delaying the next Req window and it stopped interrupting combos. This is where it went from being risky to use and only for emergencies to something that's still emergency focused, but less punishing. Come 6.3 rework, the change in rotation made it even less punishing to use it unless you had to use it during Requiescat. Clemency still has some DPS cost nowadays, it's just not as much as it used to be. Increase the MP cost of divine spells, reduce the amount of MP we restore throughout the rotation and I think it'd be fine.

Holy Spirit and blades on the other hand, that's where it straight up wasn't necessary; Practically 2 uses of Clemency for free every minute with no loss of DPS. Add in Holy Sheltron, and that's another free Clemency every 20s or so. Remove the heals from the rest of Divine spells, and honestly it'd be fine. Holy Sheltron could also be looked at, but that's true of all of the tanks buffed 82 mitigations.