#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[YarnMage48]

Philosophia is probably the perfect example of what we are talking about. Why ISNT it a party wide kardia. Because it isn’t it pops with regular healing actions as well as damage options, and you can’t buff it with soteria. The literal one modulation tool for kardia that SGE has and one that got a baffling CD reduction in this expansion

Literally one expansion in and they are already basically dumping kardia because they want everyone to be able to use philosophia

Then using your example of ET, sure the SCH has to think ahead and gets rewarded with potentially higher HPS but does that actually affect your decision whether to use it or not……..no you both just press it during a white hole/harrowing hell style mechanic and achieve the same thing

Functionally it is a party-wide Kardia. It works similarly to Tech Step granting everyone a buff, even though there's only 1 dance partner. I can see the argument for having it be buffed by Soteria, if they want to go that direction with it.

What do you mean by saying that they are "dumping Kardia"?

For Harrowing Hell I'd be more inclined to utilize Panhaima and Holos, and focus more on maintaining shields. Since I have a co-healer, it would make more sense to let the shields stay as shields rather than dumping them for direct heals. Pepsis is more of a "I need to heal on the move" sort of situation. But, especially combined with other skills, Emergency Tactics could restore a lot of party HP very quickly. I'd find that more useful for healing in between hits of Rotten Honey in M2S, where's there's still time to get another shield out for the next hit. I mean I didn't play Scholar in M2S so maybe that's not as good in practice. I just don't think a HH type of mechanic is the best use for Pepsis/Deployment tactics.

[Supersnow845]

Functionally it is a party-wide Kardia. It works similarly to Tech Step granting everyone a buff, even though there's only 1 dance partner. I can see the argument for having it be buffed by Soteria, if they want to go that direction with it.

What do you mean by saying that they are "dumping Kardia"?

For Harrowing Hell I'd be more inclined to utilize Panhaima and Holos, and focus more on maintaining shields. Since I have a co-healer, it would make more sense to let the shields stay as shields rather than dumping them for direct heals. Pepsis is more of a "I need to heal on the move" sort of situation. But, especially combined with other skills, Emergency Tactics could restore a lot of party HP very quickly. I'd find that more useful for healing in between hits of Rotten Honey in M2S, where's there's still time to get another shield out for the next hit. I mean I didn't play Scholar in M2S so maybe that's not as good in practice. I just don't think a HH type of mechanic is the best use for Pepsis/Deployment tactics.

When I say “dumped kardia” I mean literally one expansion after SGE launched they introduced the most natural extension of the kardia system………spread kardia. THEN THEY DIDNT EVEN MAKE IT KARDIA. What does that say about their faith in the kardia system? There is zero justification for why philosophia isn’t kardia itself

If you want to take that thought even further why does SGE even have physis? Physis should have been spread kardia as SGE was sold to us as the healer that heals by doing damage. But instead of making this logic baseline conclusion they instead did a cheap copy of whispering dawn……and whispering dawn only exists because without it succor was the only AOE heal SCH had in ARR so its position within the kit actually makes sense

They seem to have no faith in their design choices for SGE, instead blindly copying SCH without understanding what people want out of SGE’s design

[YarnMage48]

When I say “dumped kardia” I mean literally one expansion after SGE launched they introduced the most natural extension of the kardia system………spread kardia. THEN THEY DIDNT EVEN MAKE IT KARDIA. What does that say about their faith in the kardia system? There is zero justification for why philosophia isn’t kardia itself

If you want to take that thought even further why does SGE even have physis? Physis should have been spread kardia as SGE was sold to us as the healer that heals by doing damage. But instead of making this logic baseline conclusion they instead did a cheap copy of whispering dawn……and whispering dawn only exists because without it succor was the only AOE heal SCH had in ARR so its position within the kit actually makes sense

They seem to have no faith in their design choices for SGE, instead blindly copying SCH without understanding what people want out of SGE’s design

I think you're making some... rather negative assumptions about how SE makes their design choices.

I'm thinking maybe this has to do with lore? Kardia, in greek, means "heart". "-ion" is a suffix that means "an act, state, or result of doing something". So, in game, when you cast Kardia and give someone Kardion, you are connecting your heart to theirs, and they receive healing from you as a result of that connection. Its described as the residual aether from damage spells being given to the connected person as healing.

Eudamonia comes from "Eu" - "good", and "daimon" - "soul" or "self". From a greek philosophy standpoint, its a about a state of being your best self. I mean its more complex than that but I don't wanna type out a whole essay on it. So lets just stick with "being your best". Since you are in a state of your best, your healing magic is boosted, and you can increase the reach of the residual damage aether.

I can see an argument that this should be seen as an extension of Kardia. But for me, I feel like going from a connection to just one heart to everyone's heart is... just not right. I can see it making a certain amount of sense. But I think it makes more sense that you can only have that heart connection with one person in the party at a time. Everyone can benefit from the residual attack aether. But only one person gets to be connected by the heart.

SE put a ton of thought into the lore and naming for Sage skills, so I think that makes the most sense for why it works that way. Or maybe its a programming thing having to do with the way partner statuses, like Dance Partner, work in the code. But I think the lore side of it makes a lot of sense.

[Supersnow845]

I think you're making some... rather negative assumptions about how SE makes their design choices.

I'm thinking maybe this has to do with lore? Kardia, in greek, means "heart". "-ion" is a suffix that means "an act, state, or result of doing something". So, in game, when you cast Kardia and give someone Kardion, you are connecting your heart to theirs, and they receive healing from you as a result of that connection. Its described as the residual aether from damage spells being given to the connected person as healing.

Eudamonia comes from "Eu" - "good", and "daimon" - "soul" or "self". From a greek philosophy standpoint, its a about a state of being your best self. I mean its more complex than that but I don't wanna type out a whole essay on it. So lets just stick with "being your best". Since you are in a state of your best, your healing magic is boosted, and you can increase the reach of the residual damage aether.

I can see an argument that this should be seen as an extension of Kardia. But for me, I feel like going from a connection to just one heart to everyone's heart is... just not right. I can see it making a certain amount of sense. But I think it makes more sense that you can only have that heart connection with one person in the party at a time. Everyone can benefit from the residual attack aether. But only one person gets to be connected by the heart.

SE put a ton of thought into the lore and naming for Sage skills, so I think that makes the most sense for why it works that way. Or maybe its a programming thing having to do with the way partner statuses, like Dance Partner, work in the code. But I think the lore side of it makes a lot of sense.

That’s a seperate argument. SGE has well designed naming conventions for its skills for their connections to the origin of the medical field (side note I’m a doctor so you don’t have to explain to me the meaning of SGE’s names. Not saying that in a rude way just that I’m aware) but naming design doesn’t mean near anything when it doesn’t really translate into meaningful design expression

Plus when you really break down SGE’s names a lot of them don’t make a lot of sense anyway. “Haima” means blood as a representation of the 4 humours theory (of which phlegma for phlegm is another though black and yellow bile are not represented) but blood has nothing to do with stacking shields and then “panhaima” means “the blood of the collective” which doesn’t make any more sense than haima other than “pan” being a shorthand to represent everything within a group. Holos means “whole” which again………mitigation, not really seeing the contention. Even your example of kardia and kardion being a short hand for “heart to heart connection” is it not strange a heart to heart is only activated by doing damage.

If the only argument for why physis/philosophia is not pankardia is naming conventions then that’s a pretty flimsy argument. The design of the class should come first and then the names from there.

[Azurarok]

The general design split of the four healers is

Reactive Pure - WHM
Reactive Barrier - SGE
Proactive Pure - AST
Proactive Barrier - SCH

The Reactive healers tend to be a safer choice if incoming damage is less predictable, but the Proactive pair are generally the better choice otherwise, and are usually seen as better since this game's fights are so rigidly scripted. Extremes+ enforce the script so heavily that they often don't allow recovery, which Reactive healing excels at.

Moreover, the Proactive healers are still given plenty of tools for Reactive healing that tend to be more than enough to cover the emergency heals needed in skilled hands, so ultimately they kinda end up being able to offer more to the party. Not to mention they're also the ones with raid buffs, which makes everyone's funny numbers look bigger.

[YarnMage48]

The general design split of the four healers is

Reactive Pure - WHM
Reactive Barrier - SGE
Proactive Pure - AST
Proactive Barrier - SCH

The Reactive healers tend to be a safer choice if incoming damage is less predictable, but the Proactive pair are generally the better choice otherwise, and are usually seen as better since this game's fights are so rigidly scripted. Extremes+ enforce the script so heavily that they often don't allow recovery, which Reactive healing excels at.

Moreover, the Proactive healers are still given plenty of tools for Reactive healing that tend to be more than enough to cover the emergency heals needed in skilled hands, so ultimately they kinda end up being able to offer more to the party. Not to mention they're also the ones with raid buffs, which makes everyone's funny numbers look bigger.

I would say that's a good summary of the design split.

One thing I will point out is that, unless you are playing with a very good, very consistent team, you are going to have a not-insignificant amount of unpredictable damage to react to. Having the extra adaptability can be a huge boon in that scenario. But inversely, if everything goes to script, the reactive healers can manage just as well.

As far as damage is concerned, its a balance between higher overall damage potential, and party buffs. Which one is more useful to the team is going to depend on the individual party. But on average, it seems to balance out as far as damage contribution.

They all have their strengths and weaknesses, and situations that they do better or worse in.

[ForsakenRoe]

One thing I will point out is that, unless you are playing with a very good, very consistent team, you are going to have a not-insignificant amount of unpredictable damage to react to. Having the extra adaptability can be a huge boon in that scenario. But inversely, if everything goes to script, the reactive healers can manage just as well.

Had a run of M3 normal earlier (for a friend's alt character). Must have been like, 14 deaths across the team in total? Enough to lose count, and to need a Healer LB, at least. But, I was, at multiple times, one of four players still alive in the run as one of the Healers (SCH). We scraped by long enough to get a Healer LB out and clear. There was a moment (about 30s before LB3 came up) where we had to take an 8man stack mark with just 4 people. I had to think fast, and throw out a Swiftcast>Adlo>Deployment combo (there was also an active Sacred Soil I used for the regen), and the team lived with sub-5k HP left. Without that, we'd have wiped, 8mins or so into the fight. That would have been pretty tragic

Point is, I think that the 'Proactive/Reactive' label doesn't really add anything, because we can be VERY Reactive with one of the more Proactive healers (SCH), but we can't be as Proactive as one of the Reactive healers (WHM). In the above scenario, if I were a WHM, we'd be done for. Temperance and Divine Caress would likely have already been used at that point, and WHM has no other mitigation they can offer. Even if Temperance/Divine Caress were miraculously available, DC is 400p and my Deploy Adlo was 540p, so it wouldn't have even been enough without something extra. As a WHM, I could keep everyone's HP at max more easily, yes, but once that stack marker comes, WHM-me wouldn't have anything I could do to save us. Can't out-HPS a oneshot. But as a SCH, I almost always have access to something. In a normal mode like that, when everything's going swimmingly, I don't need to use Expedient, or Deployment Tactics, or Seraph, or Seraphism. So, when things DO go wrong, I have all of those actions on standby to salvage the situation.

Every expansion, SE makes it easier for all the healers to be 'Reactive'. But this comes at the cost of making the so-called Proactive healers, more Reactive too, so they end up with the potential to be Proactive and Reactive, and the originally-Reactive healers end up being... still just 'Reactive'

“Haima” means blood as a representation of the 4 humours theory (of which phlegma for phlegm is another though black and yellow bile are not represented)

I don't remember which of the two is which, but I do know that one of the two biles is 'Melainachole', from which we get the word 'melancholy', and -Chole is referred to by the Addersgall spenders

The other bile I don't know the name of, but was thought to be produced by the Gall Bladder. I'm sure we can all guess what part of the SGE naming refers to that

(edit: wikipedia says Melainachole is the black, and that means the Gall bile would be the yellow)

As a side note, I hear more often than I need to from someone I know who does Fencing, that some of RDM's actions have nonsensical names. For example, a Fleche is more akin to the animation we see for Corps-A-Corps (the dash in), and Zwerchau is a longsword technique, not a rapier one. Guess they just wanted a word that began with Z, that is sorta kinda sword related, so they could have the Zorro slashes as an animation

[YarnMage48]

Every expansion, SE makes it easier for all the healers to be 'Reactive'. But this comes at the cost of making the so-called Proactive healers, more Reactive too, so they end up with the potential to be Proactive and Reactive, and the originally-Reactive healers end up being... still just 'Reactive'

Well I'm glad you were able to salvage a clear. But seriously, one anecdotal example of a very specific situation, with literally no mention of what class the other healer was and how they contributed, only proves that you and your co-healer did a good job of reacting to that situation. Every healer will run out of resources eventually. How long that takes is more dependent on how well you can utilize the kit than the kit itself.

The labels proactive and reactive, just like barrier and pure healer, are referring to overall design. You can be proactive, reactive, shield, and direct heal with all of them.

I've gotten into this topic before but a large part of this is so that any healer class, or pair of healer classes, can go into any content and handle the healing. But what this does lead to is toolkits that are flexible, rather than rigidly centered around the functional design idea.

[Shurrikhan]

As a side note, I hear more often than I need to from someone I know who does Fencing, that some of RDM's actions have nonsensical names. For example, a Fleche is more akin to the animation we see for Corps-A-Corps (the dash in), and Zwerchau is a longsword technique, not a rapier one. Guess they just wanted a word that began with Z, that is sorta kinda sword related, so they could have the Zorro slashes as an animation

Aye, a zwerchau is just a "transverse cut". That said, the term feels a bit... odd, to say the least, for a blade not especially capable of quickly rotating around the opponent's blade for a thrust or an attack in the opposite arc, as is far more the case for a longsword or other two-handed blade than for a rapier or other one-handed blades. That's not to say that the latter can't do these, too, but terminology systems built around the rapier, for instance, opt for different taxonomies better fit to the affordances of their blade, and will therefore vary from that of the longsword, let alone the german tradition thereof.

Zwerks are handy because they can guard from downward or diagonal cuts from the side into which you're cutting, acting easily as a threat-presenting guard (something you can instantly follow up on with a thrust or opposite strike) even if you have to extend it past the ideal point around which to rotate for a strong cut, or --better still-- guarding oneself even as one attacks.

And a fleche, unsurprising from the term fletcher, is... "an arrow". Just launch yourself, point first, at the enemy... "like an arrow". I mean, I guess it's at least throwing little aetherial swords as if they were ranged weapons? Still makes me think they were thinking of "big flechettes" instead and just figured they could reverse-engineer a fencing term of sorts from that? Idek.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Weeeellllll technically Eukrasia do have exactly one update in DT: E.Dyskrasia—a low bar to clear, I know. Sadly that one variant which existed in media tour build didn’t even survive the dawn of the expansion’s launch because apparently losing out 80p/minute would be so stressful… RIP media tour E.Dyskrasia. You never had a chance.

Now we’re left with an impotent variant that’s only beneficial in the nichest of niche cases. All because of the bloody 80p/minute gain.