#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[TheDustyOne]

and buff GCD heals so they are used more.

This is pointless; GCD heals aren't avoided because they're underpowered, they're avoided because that's a Glaroilificosis lost. If we want GCD heals to be used, you need to cull the oGCDs and increase the frequency of unavoidable damage.

It wouldn't matter if Cure II was 300 potency or a full Benediction, the fact it's on the GCD is what will make people avoid it. Besides, the heals are already plenty potent, we just lack the required damage to have us actually need it.

[YarnMage48]

There seems to be a miscommunication here. I don't consider Dosis to be "filler". Well, if you're saying that the primary single target damage button for each healer is functionally the same across classes, then yes, they are indeed quite similar. Though I do have to say that I find the "Eukrasion" gimmick to be neat. Yes, in practice, all it really changes is the amount of space needed on my hotbar for GCD skills. But I still think it's neat, nonetheless. Regardless, that's not the point I was making. The point is that if you ignore differences, you will only see similarities.

I've already discussed several differences between SGE and SCH. I've also already discussed some barriers for further differentiation between healer classes.

If you only want to see the similarities, then I can't stop you. No matter what you choose, I will continue enjoying the game.

[Supersnow845]

There seems to be a miscommunication here. I don't consider Dosis to be "filler". Well, if you're saying that the primary single target damage button for each healer is functionally the same across classes, then yes, they are indeed quite similar. Though I do have to say that I find the "Eukrasion" gimmick to be neat. Yes, in practice, all it really changes is the amount of space needed on my hotbar for GCD skills. But I still think it's neat, nonetheless. Regardless, that's not the point I was making. The point is that if you ignore differences, you will only see similarities.

I've already discussed several differences between SGE and SCH. I've also already discussed some barriers for further differentiation between healer classes.

If you only want to see the similarities, then I can't stop you. No matter what you choose, I will continue enjoying the game.

What do you consider dosis to be if you don’t consider it filler. I mean that’s literally what it is in the most literal sense of the word. It’s what you press when you don’t have anything else to press. I don’t get how that can be up for debate

[Azurarok]

There were so many more differences between healers (or all the jobs in general) in the past of course we're focusing on the similarities to be an issue. That's kind of the point of the thread.

[YarnMage48]

What do you consider dosis to be if you don’t consider it filler. I mean that’s literally what it is in the most literal sense of the word. It’s what you press when you don’t have anything else to press. I don’t get how that can be up for debate

An important part of my toolkit, just like everything else on my bar.

[TheDustyOne]

An important part of my toolkit, just like everything else on my bar.

Just because it's important doesn't stop it from being filler.

Every melee 123 combo is important, but it's still filler in that it's what your press when there's nothing else to press. Burst Shot on Bard is important, but it's still the filler button when you've got nothing else to press. Dosis is the primary attack button for Sage, but you still only press it because there's nothing else to press.

[YarnMage48]

Just because it's important doesn't stop it from being filler.

Every melee 123 combo is important, but it's still filler in that it's what your press when there's nothing else to press. Burst Shot on Bard is important, but it's still the filler button when you've got nothing else to press. Dosis is the primary attack button for Sage, but you still only press it because there's nothing else to press.

See the issue here is this idea that any skills in a kit are "filler". Damage spells aren't what I use when I have nothing better to do. I use them because I would like to do damage to the boss.

The way I see it, the more damage I do to enemies, the faster they die. The faster they die, the less damage they do to the team. In the words of Mr. Happy in his healing video, "The enemy cannot hurt you if they are dead". And really, what's more effective at mitigating damage? A shield? Or just killing the enemy before they can dish out that damage?

Every damage option we have is an opportunity to kill the boss faster. None of it is filler.

No, healers don't need to do any DPS to clear a fight. But we can help our team clear faster, and in so doing, we utilize our most powerful mitigative ability of all - killings things before they can hurt us more.

Nothing we do is filler. All of it contributes to the goal.

[Shurrikhan]

There seems to be a miscommunication here. I don't consider Dosis to be "filler". Well, if you're saying that the primary single target damage button for each healer is functionally the same across classes, then yes, they are indeed quite similar. Though I do have to say that I find the "Eukrasion" gimmick to be neat. Yes, in practice, all it really changes is the amount of space needed on my hotbar for GCD skills.

To be fair, though, Eukrasian Dosis is no more Dosis than Dia, Afflatus Solace, Glare IV, is Glare, Biolysis is Broil, or Combust is Malefic.

Nor does Eukrasian Dosis even change the number of skills you need on your bar relative to the other 30s-duration DoTs. You're still using another key to then replace an GCD of the functionally identical attack, up to once per 30s (20s, in Afflatus's case; thrice per 120s in G4's case).

The difference is just that you hit the filler attack's button once more per DoT; that's it.

[YarnMage48]

To be fair, though, Eukrasian Dosis is no more Dosis than Dia, Afflatus Solace, Glare IV, is Glare, Biolysis is Broil, or Combust is Malefic.

Nor does Eukrasian Dosis even change the number of skills you need on your bar relative to the other 30s-duration DoTs. You're still using another key to then replace an GCD of the functionally identical attack, up to once per 30s (20s, in Afflatus's case; thrice per 120s in G4's case).

The difference is just that you hit the filler attack's button once more per DoT; that's it.

Ok let's break this down. Dosis III, Eukrasion Dosis III, Dykrasia II, and Eukrasion Dykrasia II adds up to 4 spells. Counting Eukraisa, that's only 3 hotbar spaces to access all 4 of them.

But Eukrasia also impacts heal GCDs. So when you add in Diagnosis, Eukrasion Diagnosis, Prognosis, and Eukrasion Prognosis, that's 8 total spells that only takes up 5 spaces on my hotbar.

So yes. Eukrasia changes the amount of space needed for my GCD skills.

[Shurrikhan]

Ok let's break this down. Dosis III, Eukrasion Dosis III, Dykrasia II, and Eukrasion Dykrasia II adds up to 4 spells. Counting Eukraisa, that's only 3 hotbar spaces to access all 4 of them.

But Eukrasia also impacts heal GCDs. So when you add in Diagnosis, Eukrasion Diagnosis, Prognosis, and Eukrasion Prognosis, that's 8 total spells that only takes up 5 spaces on my hotbar.

So yes. Eukrasia changes the amount of space needed for my GCD skills.

I replied to your discussion of their offensive place in single-target combat. Of those, only Dosis III and Eukrasian Dosis III are relevant, and are analogous to any other filler-DoT pair.

But by all means, let's run your example through more broadly.

Your means of performing your GCD spammable heals and attacks requires 5 keys (Dosis, Dykrasis, Diagnosis, Prognosis, Eukrasia).
SCH's means of performing their GCD spammable heals and attacks requires 6 keys (Broil, Biolysis, Art of War, Adloquiem, Succor, Physick), of which only 5 keys are actually used.
WHM's means of performing their GCD spammable heals and attacks requires 7 keys (Glare, Dia, Holy, Cure II, Regen, Medica, Medica II), of which only 6 keys are actually used.
AST's means of performing their GCD spammable heals and attacks requires 7 keys (Malefic, Combust, Gravity, Benefic II, Aspected Benefic, Helix, Aspected Helix), of which only 5 keys are generally used.

So its savings relative to other kit designs are, in effect... 1 in 32 keys.

And I'm not sure why this needs to be repeated after so many times, but since you're seemingly continuing to interpret critiques of healer same-ish-ness as if said critiques disliked what little distinction exists...

...none of this is to say that Eukrasia is bad. It simply happens to be laughable to say that hitting your DoT once per 30 seconds on SGE feels different just because you hit [2]->[1] instead of the normal [1] instead of just hitting [2] instead of [1] or that hitting your STHeal+ GCD feels different from AST hitting its STHeal+ GCD just because you hit [2]->[3] instead of just [3], etc., let alone that those fractional changes actually allow SGE gameplay to feel distinct from SCH (or even the broader basic healer template altogether).

I.e., that Sage's uniqueness could have been, was implied to be, and should have been far more than what we got.

And people trying to, say, put an [obligatory 1s GCD + 1.5s GCD pair] on a pedestal as if it were sufficiently unique from any [2.5s GCD with identical control and considerations] to make its job feel truly distinct... only makes it harder to get there.