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  1. #1
    Player
    Dante131's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2020
    Posts
    277
    Character
    Dante Ameliev
    World
    Raiden
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne View Post
    I feel the same way. Lv78 traits on Soil back in ShB, anybody? I had that moment: “Why is this trait exists on a BARRIER Healer??”

    As for Noct AST, they could’ve just leave that section entirely intact and it won’t even be an issue today. It’s just an excuse and smokescreen attempt to fool the uninformed that there is an actual dichotomy.
    the sad part is i am more convinced they just didnt want to put in the effort create / balance the stuff for noct stance. But i think it wouldve been cooler to have AST as Hybrid mabe even SGE because why not 1 pure 1 barrier and 2 flexible hybrids would be so cool in my opinion.
    (1)

  2. #2
    Player
    Supersnow845's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    6,738
    Character
    Andreas Cestelle
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Dante131 View Post
    the sad part is i am more convinced they just didnt want to put in the effort create / balance the stuff for noct stance. But i think it wouldve been cooler to have AST as Hybrid mabe even SGE because why not 1 pure 1 barrier and 2 flexible hybrids would be so cool in my opinion.
    SGE already is a flexi healer

    People focus so strongly on the fact that SGE’s GCD’s are shields but beyond that SGE barely has more mitigation than AST (kerechole is up twice as often as CU, holos+panhaima roughly equals neutral sect+sunsign) and is drowning in pure healing

    SCH is really the only one that actively weaponises shields but it’s also drowning in free healing, just as WHM is really the only one that feels like a pure healer but its lack of shields acts to its detriment

    If you removed pure healing from SCH you could basically right there turn the meta into “anything you want”
    (2)

  3. #3
    Player
    Dante131's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2020
    Posts
    277
    Character
    Dante Ameliev
    World
    Raiden
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Supersnow845 View Post
    SGE already is a flexi healer

    People focus so strongly on the fact that SGE’s GCD’s are shields but beyond that SGE barely has more mitigation than AST (kerechole is up twice as often as CU, holos+panhaima roughly equals neutral sect+sunsign) and is drowning in pure healing

    SCH is really the only one that actively weaponises shields but it’s also drowning in free healing, just as WHM is really the only one that feels like a pure healer but its lack of shields acts to its detriment

    If you removed pure healing from SCH you could basically right there turn the meta into “anything you want”
    i think you mistaken me a bit. with flexi i mean that you have something to swap so one stance for beeing more of a mit / barrier class and one with a disgusting output of pure healing a bit what the astro been earlier
    (1)

  4. #4
    Player
    Maltothoris's Avatar
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    Jul 2015
    Posts
    744
    Character
    Malto Thoris
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne View Post
    I feel the same way. Lv78 traits on Soil back in ShB, anybody? I had that moment: “Why is this trait exists on a BARRIER Healer??”
    What I found funny was that when it first introduced asylum was still 6 yalm while soil was 8. Then in 5.1, they tried to lessen the advantage of soil by making asylum 8 yalm and making noct collective damage mit 20 seconds and reducing the cd from 90 to 60 seconds.
    (1)

  5. #5
    Player
    Supersnow845's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    6,738
    Character
    Andreas Cestelle
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    The selfish healers either need their nukes buffed every patch or they need some kind of internal multiplier that scales with gear creep over the expansion because right now the selfish healers are always behind and square takes hilariously long to even attempt to balance them. AST+SCH is still like 20% ahead of every comp deep in an off patch where people who are good at aligning raid buffs aren’t even playing the tier

    Right now the two divisions of healer are just “the good ones” and “the bad ones”. You want to be a raid healer (one point to SCH and AST) and you want to be a shield healer (one point to SCH and SGE) so SCH>AST/SGE>WHM and what do you know that’s exactly how the healer balance of combined contribution to the raid has been since ShB
    (0)
    As a healer main in this game for nigh on 14 years all I can say is that I’m tired. My role has been eroded of complexity and expression for 3 expansions. I’ve watched the tanks do my role for me for 2 expansions and my feedback and critiques continue to fall on deaf ears.

    I have no idea who modern healers are designed for but I know now it’s not me. This is the first expansion I’m truly considering dropping the healer role and not returning, so if that was the goal- congratulations I guess

  6. #6
    Player
    Shurrikhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    12,870
    Character
    Tani Shirai
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Supersnow845 View Post
    AST+SCH is still like 20% ahead of every comp deep in an off patch where people who are good at aligning raid buffs aren’t even playing the tier
    20%? Hyperbole? Else, the amount seems pretty fight-varied but never more than ~8% between the top AST-SCH combined rDPS and the next non-AST/SCH comp's.

    More generally... there's... only two AST+SCH pairs in the top 20 for Healer Combined rDPS.

    The most seen healer among the top 20 for healer combined rDPS... is Sage, in 14 out of the top 20, followed extremely closely by WHM at 13... while AST is only in 7 of the top 20 and SCH only in 6.

    Even in 7.05, AST+SCH was only 4 of the top 20 versus, say, 8 WHM-SGE comps.
    (0)
    Last edited by Shurrikhan; 02-11-2025 at 12:09 PM.

  7. #7
    Player
    Supersnow845's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    6,738
    Character
    Andreas Cestelle
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Shurrikhan View Post
    20%? Hyperbole? Else, the amount seems pretty fight-varied but never more than ~8% between the top AST-SCH combined rDPS and the next non-AST/SCH comp's.

    More generally... there's... only two AST+SCH pairs in the top 20 for Healer Combined rDPS.

    The most seen healer among the top 20 for healer combined rDPS... is Sage, in 14 out of the top 20, followed extremely closely by WHM at 13... while AST is only in 7 of the top 20 and SCH only in 6.

    Even in 7.05, AST+SCH was only 4 of the top 20 versus, say, 8 WHM-SGE comps.
    I have no idea how that “all stars” is calculated. When you swap from “all stars” to looking at the top combined healer DPS of each individual fight SCH+AST is all 20 of the top 20 in 1 out of 4 fights and more than 15/20 in the other 3 and in 7.05 was the all the top 20 in every fight. I can only assume the best performers in one specific fight may have not performed terribly well in another so the group that was in the top 50 in all 4 got a higher ranking than someone who got 1st in one fight but didn’t even crack the top 500 in another. But that just shows individual player consistency not the average strength of the job

    As for AST+SCH being 20% ahead that was my bad that was from 7.05 where they range from 12% to 22% ahead. It’s closer to 5-10% in 7.1
    (0)
    As a healer main in this game for nigh on 14 years all I can say is that I’m tired. My role has been eroded of complexity and expression for 3 expansions. I’ve watched the tanks do my role for me for 2 expansions and my feedback and critiques continue to fall on deaf ears.

    I have no idea who modern healers are designed for but I know now it’s not me. This is the first expansion I’m truly considering dropping the healer role and not returning, so if that was the goal- congratulations I guess

  8. #8
    Player
    Rein_eon_Osborne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Location
    Shadowflare - Ward Miasma II, Plot Broil IV
    Posts
    3,978
    Character
    Mira Clearweaver
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 90
    Shouldn’t also forget that the addition of Philosophia further drags SGE away from its mitigative/shielding domain. That style of pankardia could’ve been what Physis is while giving us something else in lv100 yanno?

    But no, for some reason they need something to enables them eek out Cure III-degree of burst healing it’s not even funny anymore given how often they’ve done this to the barrier healers: have them steal WHM’s Cure III gil.
    (0)

  9. #9
    Player
    Supersnow845's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    6,738
    Character
    Andreas Cestelle
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    FRU got cleared with no healers
    (0)
    As a healer main in this game for nigh on 14 years all I can say is that I’m tired. My role has been eroded of complexity and expression for 3 expansions. I’ve watched the tanks do my role for me for 2 expansions and my feedback and critiques continue to fall on deaf ears.

    I have no idea who modern healers are designed for but I know now it’s not me. This is the first expansion I’m truly considering dropping the healer role and not returning, so if that was the goal- congratulations I guess

  10. #10
    Player
    Yeol's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    1,309
    Character
    Dr Yeol
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Fisher Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Supersnow845 View Post
    FRU got cleared with no healers
    I had to go find it asap https://m.bilibili.com/video/BV1QZNzeNEoQ
    (1)

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