#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Connor]

Gnash's removal probably can be attributed to the maximum number of buff/debuffs a target can have. Same reason why healers lost all their dots, apparently. And there's still been issues with too many buff/debuffs on players that's kept them from receiving a tank lb3 and such. The "~ ready" buffs they've added in DT's apparently made it worse too.

You'd think if it's being an active problem to both job and fight design it should be major priority.

Isn’t the buff/debuff cap something that’s only really encountered in extremely specific circumstances like certain ultimates or Bozja though? I don’t get why they’d think ‘let’s get rid of this skill in case the player happens to do the 0.1% of content it might be a problem’ lol. Like surely it makes more sense to look at what it is about that context that’s causing so many buffs/debuffs in the first place lol (i.e debuff vomit in certain encounters).

Is there like some technical reason why they can’t just…make it higher? lol. I imagine it’s probably a bit more complicated than that lol, but maybe a workaround would at least make it a bit less restrictive.

As someone who prefers support oriented playstyles with a focus on buffing/debuffing, it’s extremely disheartening to know that basically that can’t ever be realized because you might hit the cap. Plus, how are they ever going to give healers new DoTs while the debuff cap is in place? They basically can’t because of 24-mans where 24/60 debuff slots are going to be taken up by damage over time (assuming 3 DoT per healer). I mean, that requires a lot of assumptions lol, like 100% uptime, but in theory. Then assuming there’s 1 Bard in every party that’s 50% of the potential slots taken solely by damage over time. Add in things like damage reduction debuffs or Trick Attack (what’s it called now? Dokumori?) and you might hit the 60 cap lol.

I really hope they look into either increasing it, working around it (maybe squish certain buffs/debuffs into one icon over two?), or something. It’s sad to think that these technical limitations affect actual job design itself to the point we’re losing abilities over it

[LynxDubh]

Gnash's removal probably can be attributed to the maximum number of buff/debuffs a target can have. Same reason why healers lost all their dots, apparently. And there's still been issues with too many buff/debuffs on players that's kept them from receiving a tank lb3 and such. The "~ ready" buffs they've added in DT's apparently made it worse too.

You'd think if it's being an active problem to both job and fight design it should be major priority.

You'd think it would warrant them to make healer changes to mitigate this issue as well. Why not make AST, WHM, or even SGE revolve around other forms of damage other than DotS and then throw SCH a bone and give them one back.

They don't even have to be massive changes, just give replace the dots with a skill that is more interesting and shakes up the downtime, then one extra skill that goes with it.

For example you could:

SGE - Give it a 1-2 branching combo. The first finisher is for damage, the second finisher is for gaining stakes of Addersting. Heck, even a self damage amp would be interesting.

WHM - Let it have a couple of skills that build up to an elemental nuke. I think ForsakenRoe has quite a few posts that have that as a fun element.

AST- Maybe a self buff or a buff you can cast on someone? AST should be kept bust with its card system in an idyllic world, so I'm not against it keeping its 1 nuke+1 dot downtime.

SCH- Give one extra dot to manage with a shorter duration, like 18-21 or something.

These are all just spitballs, but I think you get the point.

[Jojoya]

I've said before in another thread, they may have the data, but are they parsing the data correctly? Data without feedback is worthless.

You're missing another component. What they're looking for in the data may not align with what individual groups of players want them to be looking for.

I thought it pretty interesting that in all the interviews coming out of Gamescon, there didn't seem to be any comments about healing. Seems like they still don't consider the current state of healing as an issue to be addressed.

You can see pieces of how they parse data by looking at BLU. They consider BLU a success, while in reality, it's interacted with (by the players who do actually interact with it) for like 48 hours after each update it gets to level, learn new actions, and then the absolute vast majority drops it until the next update. A small amount of players continue to use it for the weekly Masked Carnivale challenges, and an incredibly small number use it for doing the raid challenges (source: Morbol acquisition rate is incredibly low even now).

Did you stop to consider that someone interacting with one specific form of side content for 48 hours of time played is a genuine success? There are successful full games on the market that don't engage players for more than 20 hours.

So what if the Morbol acquisition rate is low? Not everyone picking up BLU is interested in doing Savage raid content with it.

This is a good example of a case where what you feel should be valued doesn't align with what other players and the developers choose to value.

[Connor]

I thought it pretty interesting that in all the interviews coming out of Gamescon, there didn't seem to be any comments about healing. Seems like they still don't consider the current state of healing as an issue to be.

To be fair as much as their silence frustrates me I get where it comes from.
When it comes to healers they’re basically screwed whether do or don’t say anything. If they try pulling the ‘more healing requirements card (in savages/ultimate which isn’t even out yet lol) people are going to be infuriated to receive the exact same excuse yet again.

If they try pulling a ‘we’re working on it’ that just causes player expectations to swell out of control (some expecting full reworks, others expecting minor, arguments about which is more needed).

Even if they tried to go for the ‘we are aware of the issue’, it’s still going to blow up in their face because acknowledging it without commenting on it just seems dismissive and disrespectful. People would just be like ‘ok but what are you gonna about it?!’ Which can lead back to point 2 about expectations.

That said, as much of a minefield as it is, that doesn’t mean to say they shouldn’t at least try to make their way through it. One of the reasons it’s so hard to trust the devs now is that so much of what they do just happens without any warning or explanation and rarely (if ever) gets elaborated on further, then just completely ignore any further feedback

[Tigore]

Strange thing is, the buff and debuff cap limits were known before VPRs were even a concept to create, right? If they knew they wanted to avoid this issue with VPR, how did the Gnashing debuff make it into the first build of Dawntrail ... Hmm, doesn't seem to make sense with this explanation unless it wasn't noticed by the majority of the staff somehow while it was created. The ready buffs I think I do like at least since it accomplishes the goal of the gauge resources not going to waste and keeping the cooldown rolling.

Not sure if it can be possible, but I would agree that raising the cap of buffs and debuffs may eventually be needed. DoTs and buffs can be considered different playstyles and it would be a shame if they would have to be phased out due to the buff / debuff caps.

[Maltothoris]

You're missing another component. What they're looking for in the data may not align with what individual groups of players want them to be looking for.

I thought it pretty interesting that in all the interviews coming out of Gamescon, there didn't seem to be any comments about healing. Seems like they still don't consider the current state of healing as an issue to be addressed.

By the same measure, they could just be discussing it behind close doors. Look at Stormblood lilies, first we had everything talked about them and how everyone saw how useless they would be. Yoshi-P said "give it a try", most of us said it sucked. Then they were silent for 2 yeasr about it only to come out and say, ya it sucked and it was inefficient.

[Aravell]

I thought it pretty interesting that in all the interviews coming out of Gamescon, there didn't seem to be any comments about healing. Seems like they still don't consider the current state of healing as an issue to be addressed.

You're trying to spin it as them being satisfied because they don't bring up the topic, but history shows us that they barely communicate regardless.

What did they say on the topic of healers from the massive changes in ShB all the way to now? Just 2 things:
- Go play ultimates
- Please give healers a try

That's it, that's all they said about healers for 6-7 years.

That said, the results of their flawed vision speaks for itself. People are complaining about incompetent healers and another green river is forming in PF.

[PapaIggy]

You left out the creative team from SE actually plays the game too. So it is not likely they are completely clueless how their game works. A few hundred people screaming notice me on the forum isn't going to make much of a wave. This is not to say they aren't listening they just aren't over here doting on every comment that demands it be noticed.

Now add to this that there are people who seem to live on these forums, posting 100s of times a day. Acting like gate-keepers and self assigned forum moderators. I just block those people and move on. It has been my personal experience they add nothing to the conversation and often just want to revisit old gripes from years ago. Frankly I only come to the forum about once a month and look at some threads out of morbid curiosity.

[Supersnow845]

You left out the creative team from SE actually plays the game too. So it is not likely they are completely clueless how their game works. A few hundred people screaming notice me on the forum isn't going to make much of a wave. This is not to say they aren't listening they just aren't over here doting on every comment that demands it be noticed.

Now add to this that there are people who seem to live on these forums, posting 100s of times a day. Acting like gate-keepers and self assigned forum moderators. I just block those people and move on. It has been my personal experience they add nothing to the conversation and often just want to revisit old gripes from years ago. Frankly I only come to the forum about once a month and look at some threads out of morbid curiosity.

You are right the devs play the game so they obviously know everything about how everyone else plays the game so they obviously don’t need feedback because the devs know what’s going on

[Connor]

You are right the devs play the game so they obviously know everything about how everyone else plays the game so they obviously don’t need feedback because the devs know what’s going on

Maybe they do but they’re all just really really bad at the game and all the gameplay changes are specifically for them lol.

I mean, they’ve gotta be aimed at someone , and I really don’t see anyone like ‘wow I’m so glad they made the healer role functionally redundant so I can spam any button and succeed’. Maybe it was aimed at the devs themselves all along?!