#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[sharknado]

it is completely griefing, but people still do it so I doubt they are being reported. its not dooming to say that this is how the role has been designed by SE. because.. it is.

the problem is the people who are doing only dps as a healer. thats who SE designed it for...

You are dooming. Average DF run will have a lot of healing and speedruns aren't that common with randoms - maybe if you get a dream-team for level 100 dungeon resulting in no need to GCD a heal through the entire super quick run. I spammed a lot of dungeons to level few healer and tank jobs and the only healer problems were sprout healers relatively new to burst aoe damage or some mechanics or a rare, but still present cure I healer in EW or DT content. And that's just dungeons.

Healers have a meta problem of what makes them fun/un-fun to play. The game isn't imploding today, it's rotting slowly through patches and expansions.

[Connor]

maybe if you get a dream-team for level 100 dungeon resulting in no need to GCD a heal through the entire super quick run. .

And yet somehow that’s literally every dungeon as a healer. I still cannot even get Excogitation to activate on tanks during mass pulls, they simply do not go below 50% lol. The DPS I get do pretty much every mechanic properly and rarely mess up it at all. Hell in my experience the only time someone ever dies, it’s me lol (yes it is humiliating lol). I honestly think I could probably could get away with not even using a single Aetherflow heal if I wanted to (instead I do Protraction shields and pretend to myself I didn’t just waste 300 potency lol). Hell Eos alone could probably do it with just Embrace and some Fey Union ticks. And I’m not even a good healer lol, just a casual

Speed, actual dps output from them, I have no idea about. But in ‘average DF’ I find it extremely rare to have to heal, and for unavoidables we have a large number of dps-neutral completely resource free skills. Maybe it’s just a EU server thing but I rarely ever see these ‘DF parties’ where everyone is taking tons of avoidable damage and I actually have to put thought into what I’m using. Only time I’ve come close to week 1 of the raid, and that was short lived.

I think the fact that even the ‘average DF healer’ is finding healing so unnecessary suggests there’s some truth to what the previous poster said. This system is designed for literally nobody’s enjoyment anymore, except maybe people who would never have enjoyed it to begin with

[sharknado]

And yet somehow that’s literally every dungeon as a healer. I still cannot even get Excogitation to activate on tanks during mass pulls, they simply do not go below 50% lol

From leveling Astro today in Holminster Switch - first run WAR, he sniped most heals he would need, DPS took more damage, few vuln stacks but nothing major. Lots of gravity and a nice run... Second run sprout WAR tank - gets instantly deleted on first pull, gets 4 vuln stacks at first boss, has to be babysit on trash pulls as he barely hits his heals or mits if at all. Dohn Mheg Pala - does first pull, melting like candy, had to spam heal but aside from that it's chill, everyone knows what to do. 4-mentor Switch - hard chill... and 2 casters so the red card is meh :P

Had Tender Valley run when the last boss didn't even started the blob mechanic... or a 4-mentor run in which we even managed to screw up arrows

The problem is that the variety is extremely high and the game "has to" support it. The game assumes that it's "fine" that you are in SHB and don't know how to wall pull with heal and mit as WAR... And in Dawntrail they only added "have a one-shot if you don't know the thing" which isn't much (and it's vastly easier to KO a healer than even a noob tank).

[IDontPetLalas]

From leveling Astro today in Holminster Switch - first run WAR, he sniped most heals he would need, DPS took more damage, few vuln stacks but nothing major. Lots of gravity and a nice run... Second run sprout WAR tank - gets instantly deleted on first pull, gets 4 vuln stacks at first boss, has to be babysit on trash pulls as he barely hits his heals or mits if at all. Dohn Mheg Pala - does first pull, melting like candy, had to spam heal but aside from that it's chill, everyone knows what to do. 4-mentor Switch - hard chill... and 2 casters so the red card is meh :P

Had Tender Valley run when the last boss didn't even started the blob mechanic... or a 4-mentor run in which we even managed to screw up arrows

The problem is that the variety is extremely high and the game "has to" support it. The game assumes that it's "fine" that you are in SHB and don't know how to wall pull with heal and mit as WAR... And in Dawntrail they only added "have a one-shot if you don't know the thing" which isn't much (and it's vastly easier to KO a healer than even a noob tank).

I'm sorry, there's a whole mixture of things here, which I understand is your point - but half of them are for people who are at levels where they either boosted or should know better. For example, you're saying that by level 70 it's *fine* that the games should be designed for someone who wouldn't use their core skills? I would disagree. If they haven't learned, either the game isn't teaching them, or they don't or can't learn, but some jobs (and we're talking about healers) have suffered as a result. Healer design shouldn't be based upon a level 70+ tank that needed to be "babied" because don't know their skills.

[sharknado]

For example, you're saying that by level 70 it's *fine* that the games should be designed for someone who wouldn't use their core skills? I would disagree. If they haven't learned, either the game isn't teaching them, or they don't or can't learn, but some jobs (and we're talking about healers) have suffered as a result. Healer design shouldn't be based upon a level 70+ tank that needed to be "babied" because don't know their skills.

I don't agree but the game does. You don't need your job stone, job quests, proper skill usage to get into higher level instances. You can't even report no-stone, only if they explicitly do something bad like no-tanking or no-healing.

The game isn't teaching much. Sprout will run through absurd amount of dungeons and trials, slowly getting all the core mechanics but like there is no direct feedback, no do-mechanic-or-wipe in leveling content, they can get battle rez, hard carry through experienced tank or healer and so on. And "you don't pay my sub" people And you can't publicly parse or comment about it, logging is through obnoxious third party setups.

Thats the problem current tanks and healers look like they look. From one side they have to hard carry from the other they have to be more noob-proof and if you don't get noobs in group it's broken overpowered and healer can get semi-redundant. They spent Endwalker adding solo trust and fighting for those alleged solo FF players afraid of multiplayer... but they will hit multiplayer content anyways and I didn't saw any rush of some new type of sprouts.

[IDontPetLalas]

I don't agree but the game does. You don't need your job stone, job quests, proper skill usage to get into higher level instances. You can't even report no-stone, only if they explicitly do something bad like no-tanking or no-healing.

The game isn't teaching much. Sprout will run through absurd amount of dungeons and trials, slowly getting all the core mechanics but like there is no direct feedback, no do-mechanic-or-wipe in leveling content, they can get battle rez, hard carry through experienced tank or healer and so on. And "you don't pay my sub" people And you can't publicly parse or comment about it, logging is through obnoxious third party setups.

Thats the problem current tanks and healers look like they look. From one side they have to hard carry from the other they have to be more noob-proof and if you don't get noobs in group it's broken overpowered and healer can get semi-redundant. They spent Endwalker adding solo trust and fighting for those alleged solo FF players afraid of multiplayer... but they will hit multiplayer content anyways and I didn't saw any rush of some new type of sprouts.

OK, but what is point of sying "you don't agree but the game does". What does that really mean? I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm not sure of what your position is, that's all. Nothing you say surprises me, although I would disagree that logging necessitates public comments.

Are you saying "I don't like the approach, but I can deal with it" , or ""I'm kind of frustrated, and one day I'll likely walk away or change jobs"- it's hard to see where you are on a scale of 1-10, let's say where 10 is "I'm out of here, healers needed changes years ago".

[Kacho_Nacho]

*snippity snip*

Are you saying "I don't like the approach, but I can deal with it" , or ""I'm kind of frustrated, and one day I'll likely walk away or change jobs"- it's hard to see where you are on a scale of 1-10, let's say where 10 is "I'm out of here, healers needed changes years ago".

Even though your post was directed as Snarknado, I think you asked a great question. I'll paraphrase it. Where are we on a scale between 1-10 regarding healers? 1 being you don't like the current state of healers but still heal. 10 being you have changed jobs and never healing again.

I'd say I'm a 2. I'm participating in #FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE; but, enjoy being healer enough that I'm leveling white mage to heal friends and FC members.

[sharknado]

OK, but what is point of sying "you don't agree but the game does". What does that really mean? I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm not sure of what your position is, that's all. Nothing you say surprises me, although I would disagree that logging necessitates public comments.

Are you saying "I don't like the approach, but I can deal with it" , or ""I'm kind of frustrated, and one day I'll likely walk away or change jobs"- it's hard to see where you are on a scale of 1-10, let's say where 10 is "I'm out of here, healers needed changes years ago".

The game has no accountability, maybe not until you go to premade groups for harder content (although in farm groups grey DPS could pass here and there). In WoW I would probably sit and spam M+ at max+ reward level for fun and gear. All bad players would be excluded due to scoring system built in (and external). Some runs fail, some explicitly end up with to weak group, people get salty... Here I tend to spam dungeons as well (or get Athenas in a row when getting tempted for the raid roulette) - it's not high M+ level but also isn't complete zero level of initial WoW difficulties (normal, HC, M0 ) - yet in FF14 I don't really care if the people in the run are good, top notch (unless it goes super bad which is super rare). Others seems to have the same approach. In WoW where accountability is core people would dunk on a sprout for being "trash" and even without that its annoying when M+ run fails, people leave...

FF14 approach has it benefits but also has this healer problem. As the game is chill we won't get a shift into accountability, at best they will implement much better Hall of Novice and make it mandatory in the new starting MSQ they hinted at doing (that would bypass the initial story arc; if it actually happens instead of copy-pasta and +10 levels). The next thing is getting some changes in the buttons current healers have to make them more fun (while not expecting any paradigm shift). And not like they could for example drop a sort of variant/criterion dungeon that is more WoW style where the mechanics aren't 3D chess but rather constant flow of damage taken and more normal mechanics on top of them. Testing a different approach, giving more spotlight to healers (and all-WAR groups).

Where are we on a scale between 1-10 regarding healers? 1 being you don't like the current state of healers but still heal. 10 being you have changed jobs and never healing again.

When I'm healing, sprout in agony, it's solid 1-2. When I'm dropping all those "precious" Glare IV - like 6...

[KageTokage]

Honestly, the only real "change" healing-wise I've noticed in the current Savage tier is that there's considerably more moments where the boss is constantly auto-attacking the MT during mechanics which requires you to actually pay attention to them a bit outside of tankbusters.

I welcome it because it makes single-target sustain tools like SGE's Haima/Soteria more useful, but we're still a far cry from GCD healing actually being necessary.

[ForsakenRoe]

Honestly, the only real "change" healing-wise I've noticed in the current Savage tier is that there's considerably more moments where the boss is constantly auto-attacking the MT during mechanics which requires you to actually pay attention to them a bit outside of tankbusters.

I welcome it because it makes single-target sustain tools like SGE's Haima/Soteria more useful, but we're still a far cry from GCD healing actually being necessary.

And yet there's still moments where it'd make sense for the boss to autoattack the tanks, but doesn't. One example that comes to mind is FuseField. Guy just squats there for some 40-ish seconds. Another could be the Ion Cannons in P1 of 4th fight, but I guess they hoped that the WildCharge factor (tanks need to be the frontmost player to soak the brunt of the hit) would be enough (due to tank's absurd innate defences it wasn't).

The only moment that really stands out that I'd agree with you on this (ie I actually noticed it) is Chain Lightning because you might be split away from the MT as one of the healers. But as SCH I could solve that by placing the fairy manually on the other side and Fey Union'ing, and as SGE, well, Kardia heal procs have a 100y range so Soteria can reach from the next instance over. It felt cool to realize 'oh if I manually place the fairy I can do X' sure, but once you know that you replicate it every pull, and the magic of that 'discovery' wears off