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  1. #8641
    Player
    Ritsugamesh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    68
    Character
    Ritsu Susanowa
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 91
    For anyone keeping track we've hit over 1,000,000 views now for this thread. Like holy moly.

    I really hope we get something, anything, in terms of recognition out of this from SE. Even if it doesn't come until the next expansion. Something's gotta give.
    (5)

  2. #8642
    Player
    Ramiee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2022
    Location
    Uldah
    Posts
    1,096
    Character
    Grainne Gothram
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Aravell View Post
    I don't really see why we have to constantly tiptoe around those who enjoy current healers. If they don't like that I want more complexity to return to the healer role? That's too bad, because I hate what they enjoy right now.

    We both pay the same sub, their preferences don't get to supercede mine.
    I mean yeah fair enough.
    If CBU3 actually cared though they would compromise by making 2 healers brain dead and 2 healers fun for old players.
    (1)

  3. #8643
    Player
    Rein_eon_Osborne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Location
    Shadowflare - Ward Miasma II, Plot Broil IV
    Posts
    3,991
    Character
    Mira Clearweaver
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by sharknado View Post
    [...]In end-game content you would have to manage all of this, raid frames and mechanics at once. Be careful what you wish for. And if healer DPS would get higher then it would be more punishing to heal more so the potency of all of this could be lowered to "balance"
    I'm not sure why having to manage all of that in 'end-game contents' is even a bad idea. Players are supposed to have SOME degree of competency in that level - that's to be expected. If they can't meet that expectation, then they should go back and try again after improving.

    Furthermore, varied damage options would definitely lower the output of some healers who're used to 1 2 1 1 1. That's to be expected. But that's also SE job to decide how far low: will they do 70% out of full potential for keeping 1 button spam? Or will be 50%? 30%? 85%? Personally to me, I'll take any. Even reducing Dia DoT to 18s like old Aero II would've been a boon for such a 'simple change'. (just one from many low bar examples)
    (1)

    "Outside obvious jokes/sarcasm, I aim to convey my words to the future readers who may come across mine posts. Can I change -your- mind, somehow? Potentially... but that's not why I'm writing. You and I have wrote our piece(s). We don't necessarily need to change each other's mind. But we can change other's."

  4. #8644
    Player
    Supersnow845's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    6,781
    Character
    Andreas Cestelle
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Why are people so obsessed with wanting to baby roles in savage of all things

    “Oh nyooo we can’t have the autos actually do more than the tanks inbuilt healing”
    “Oh nyooo we can’t expect healers to actually heal”
    “Oh nyooo we can’t expect healers to have an actual rotation”

    Like what’s the point of savage if you are aren’t actually testing people. And let’s not pretend like the current design is inflating PF numbers which is a good thing, even JP can’t recruit healers at the moment despite them apparently liking healers being the designated fall asleep role

    The current system isn’t working and the massive healer shortage on an easier than average to heal tier is proof of that, people simply do not want to play healers
    (10)

  5. #8645
    Player
    ForsakenRoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Posts
    2,365
    Character
    Samantha Redgrayve
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Ramiee View Post
    I mean yeah fair enough.
    If CBU3 actually cared though they would compromise by making 2 healers brain dead and 2 healers fun for old players.
    If CBU3 cared (and had the design chops) they would compromise by making all four healers fun for old players, while also balancing the potencies in such a way that you can also play all four of them 'braindead' style

    AKA, the same way we can play DPS or Tanks currently (eg you could clear a EX roulette by just spamming Overpower as WAR, but that doesn't stop the players who want to Fell Cleave and Inner Chaos from doing so)

    Quote Originally Posted by Supersnow845 View Post
    The current system isn’t working and the massive healer shortage on an easier than average to heal tier is proof of that, people simply do not want to play healers
    GNB was designed to be 'a tank that plays like a melee DPS' and it was quite successful. I don't really get why SE didn't make SGE be 'a healer that plays like a DPS' (albeit a simpler one) if they wanted to appeal to DPS players
    (9)

  6. #8646
    Player
    PercibelTheren's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2023
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    1,035
    Character
    Percibel Theren
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Kes13a View Post
    as much as I hate to disagree... but you are wrong.

    you are trying to say, that the high end elite people who blast through content like their house is on fire, and stop playing for months until the next patch/expansion... ARE CASUALS?

    thanks for the laugh. thats a good one. not sure what game you have played where that happened, but I would love to know. but I seriously think you have it VERY backwards.
    Agreed. My experience with PvP games being balanced for the top players has been nothing short of horrible. In games where roles exist, the vast majority of them are DPS mains and that leads to every other role being nerfed to the ground, which in turns alienates large parts of the playerbase.
    (3)

  7. #8647
    Player
    Jojoya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    9,091
    Character
    Jojoya Joya
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Ritsugamesh View Post
    For anyone keeping track we've hit over 1,000,000 views now for this thread. Like holy moly.

    I really hope we get something, anything, in terms of recognition out of this from SE. Even if it doesn't come until the next expansion. Something's gotta give.
    Nothings going to give until enough players quit the game.

    Sorry, but that's just the way business works. People pay, business is good. People stop paying, business make changes so they're willing to pay again.

    At this point, no one is quitting. They're switching to other jobs at most.

    Tired of healer design? Play tank. A tank not using their stance is a very sturdy DPS with healing and mitigation utility. If the amount of DPS a group of tanks can put out is sufficient to beat DPS checks, there is no reason to play anything else.
    (1)

  8. #8648
    Player
    Supersnow845's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    6,781
    Character
    Andreas Cestelle
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Jojoya View Post
    Nothings going to give until enough players quit the game.

    Sorry, but that's just the way business works. People pay, business is good. People stop paying, business make changes so they're willing to pay again.

    At this point, no one is quitting. They're switching to other jobs at most.

    Tired of healer design? Play tank. A tank not using their stance is a very sturdy DPS with healing and mitigation utility. If the amount of DPS a group of tanks can put out is sufficient to beat DPS checks, there is no reason to play anything else.
    The healer shortage has ground PF to a halt, people are reporting 4 hour waits for healers and paying grey healers millions of Gil hush to fill their parties

    A massive loss of subscribers would have the most noticeable effect but I can’t imagine they will just gone ignore the whole built in trinity in PF and DF grinding to a halt
    (15)
    As a healer main in this game for nigh on 14 years all I can say is that I’m tired. My role has been eroded of complexity and expression for 3 expansions. I’ve watched the tanks do my role for me for 2 expansions and my feedback and critiques continue to fall on deaf ears.

    I have no idea who modern healers are designed for but I know now it’s not me. This is the first expansion I’m truly considering dropping the healer role and not returning, so if that was the goal- congratulations I guess

  9. #8649
    Player
    Magikazam's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2022
    Posts
    368
    Character
    Omori Oatmeal
    World
    Malboro
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 91
    Quote Originally Posted by PercibelTheren View Post
    Agreed. My experience with PvP games being balanced for the top players has been nothing short of horrible. In games where roles exist, the vast majority of them are DPS mains and that leads to every other role being nerfed to the ground, which in turns alienates large parts of the playerbase.
    It depend what you mean by ''balanced for the top player'' I've never really seen a game like that at all tbh.

    WoW raid design was balanced for top player, but not the classes. You could clear contents even with hillariously bad classes or spec. Hell I did some legion raid on dps feral, during the time it was extremly weak due to the last rework gutting it energy management and lowering it dps greatly.

    League of Legend don't balance for top player especially either. They mostly ignore the ''casual'' meta and focus more on midcore meta, all while just nerfing/buffing random stuff around to shake the Meta up.

    I don't think those 2 games are near perfection in term of balancing, but I rarely see people bringing real proof that some game are balanced around top player.
    (1)

  10. #8650
    Player
    Tigore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    345
    Character
    Tigore Collson
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    I suppose I am now fitting into the camp of trying other job classes now that all 4 of my healer classes are capped. Normally I didn't notice much troubles when I was levelling as a healer, but my stories change for a few parties as DPS. Just recently for one of the (spoiler) 90 trial fight, we had troubles with the Doom mechanic for a few pulls. Some of the players were only healed to around 80 - 95% HP when we need 100% to drop the debuff and prevent death. I had to use Second Wind to get to my full health state several times. The DRK tank was not so lucky. I mentioned this bit of trouble only to get a remark from one saying they are the only one trying to heal it. The tanks were also immediately pulling before I could make any suggestions on what cooldowns could help.

    I don't know how often this happens though for others currently. Although I am seeing some ripple effects with what appears to be less veteran players healing. A few other friends levelling up from the expansion start did notice a sharp decline in the quality of healers for some of their 90 - 100 dungeon runs. When said spoiler trial raid was current, there was never a problem with the Doom mechanic being respected from what I could recall.

    I am not trying to brand anyone forever with these mistakes. Although I can only help if the new players are willing to listen. It also helps to stop pulling so suddenly to let the mentors teach the sprouts with obvious problems. After all. Once the new players know our tricks of the trade, they may eventually notice our Glare spam too and chime in with feedback as well.
    (3)

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