#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Shurrikhan]

Ruruura, you seem to be conflating gameplay and capacity here. Yes, having some control over one's healing input by being able to do some of that oneself can allow tanks to feel more like tanks since they then have more (types of) levers to pull in keeping themselves alive, but it is as every bit as arguable that tanks felt more like tanks when they had less total sustain (unwasted damage restored + damage nullified) precisely because good use of what resources and optimizations one did have mattered more as it is that tanks should be able to outlive everything easily and/or independently just because they're tanks.

The first is gameplay, the second capacity. Just as good gameplay can't make far inferior capacity competitive, neither can high capacity replace gameplay interest.

For my part, I tend to have the most fun on my tanks when it actually makes me fear for my life and use every trick at my disposal, such as per Protection Warrior in M+ for much of Shadowlands (lowest easily available general defense and greatest sustain cost for dealing decent damage). To that, the manner and degree of agency matters a ton while capacity actually best serves the experience when it is only barely enough (for playing as a group, moreover, not independent handling of group content). Having tons of chonkiness more than is necessary for performing one's role leaves redundant most of our optimizations and arguably therefore makes tanking feel worse.

Now, XIV dungeons (outside of Savage Criterion) are merely XIV dungeons and so a larger margin is fine, but its excesses should neither be a target nor considered thematic, especially so long as that excess renders another whole role redundant.

Here, though, I'd likewise argue for content that can better leverage situational support and healer kits that can provide it alongside other forms of more engaging downtime options rather than the outright removal of tank flat sustain (potency or %HP heals or barriers), but that has more to do with issues of scaling across low-incoming-damage (which favors flat sustain) and high-incoming-damage (which favors scaled sustain) and differing means of agency rather than any assumption that we tanks need every possible pie short of (optimized) DPSs' damage output.

Tl;dr: Agreed that tanks shouldn't lose even more agency in their gameplay, but if you mean that instead in a sense of mere reduction to an already bloated degree of capacity, I could scarcely care less.

[Ramiee]

I said it many times before but CBU3 sees a problem and instead of fixing the problem they remove the system causing the problem.

Some people struggled with stance dancing as tank, could of been so many ways to fix this such as only having 1 or 2 tanks with this but no stances just generate Aggro.

Healers DPS is too hard for casual players, solution rework 1 or 2 healers to have simpler DPS or combined healing and DPS for accessibility, instead make DPS for healers across the board too brain dead.

The only time I have saw them rework something to try and actually fix it and keep at it was diadem. Besides that they always erase the system causing the problem, it's so reductive and a terrible design philosophy, at least try to fix something first without removing it.

[Punslinger]

1) The healing problem in FFXIV goes way beyond just tanks being able to heal themselves, and focusing exclusively on that like many posters here, is silly.

Except nobody is focusing exclusively on that at all. It is one of many problems, as many of us have repeatedly said. The fact that there are other problems that make healing boring does not mean that tank self-sustain in its current form is not also a problem.

2) Like you said yourself at the moment we are little more than blue DPS with a lot of self-sustain, and that self-sustain is literally the only thing that makes us feel like the resilent chonkers we are supposed to be.

How is the current absurd self-healing "literally the only thing that makes you feel like the resilient chonkers you are supposed to be?" I thought your higher defense stats and your defensive cooldowns took care of that. I mean, my secondary job is GNB, and I can safely say that I am not leaning on Aurora or the Heart of Corundum excog to feel like a "resilient chonker." Rampart and Grand Nebula do that job just fine.

If that has to be removed for the sake of healers, then it is only fair that further tank oriented changes /redesigns happen so that tanks can recover our chonky resilient defensive class fantasy, and the FEAR is that they are going to do nothing of such.

Why? Tanks were plenty resilient before they started taking over the healer role. Was GNB the squishiest squish that ever squished back in ShB, because it didn't have an excog stapled to Heart of Stone or a second charge of Aurora? Doubtful.

My point is that unlimited self-healing has never defined the tank role in this game. You aren't "losing" anything except being overpowered. You seemingly demand that you be made OP in some other way to compensate for no longer being able to solo current content. You should understand why this is unreasonable.

Tank self-sustain needs to be limited, not removed entirely. It should be able to make up for a blown heal, to buy time for maybe 30 seconds if a healer goes down. It should not be able to let a tank waste 15 minutes of the party's time by slowly soloing down a dungeon boss.

And in any case, You. Already. Have. Defensive. Cooldowns. To. Be. Tanky. You do not need infinite self-sustain in order to be tanky.

So what are we to do, just become pure and LITERAL blue DPS so healers have more fun? Is that what you want? I do not think that is fair either lmao.

That is what tanks already were prior to EW, so, uh, yes? The healer's primary job in every MMO has been to heal the tank, because the healer's job is to heal damage and the tank's job is to take damage. That is kind of how trinity MMOs work.

[Wildheaven182]

I think this is such a hot issue because it's the beginning of the end. People seeing this now either want to give feedback, or desperately attack those who want to help the game's shortcomings because they can't bear to believe there could possibly even be any.
The devs have forgotten the values they spoke of after the 1.0 flop, and in their arrogance, those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.
Square Enix's finances are struggling, and their game design in all of their titles are falling short, failing to make back their costs. They're outsourcing to companies with political motives to cover their layoffs and lack of creative risk.
In 4-6 years, we'll be talking about how DT was the beginning of the downfall of FFXIV, like cataclysm for WoW. Squex's PR sweetheart Yoshida will apologize and step down eventually. There's always a turning point. And this is just the game sunsetting, only just barely the very beginning of that sunset.
There's only so many other FF games they can plagiarize and lift content directly out of for their lack of story writing ability.

[Gullis]

Idk, I had an AST save me after the WAR somehow died in Alexandria covering me with all their mitigation, Bole included, when I got targetted with a Tank buster as a DNC. While it's the rare 1 in a million scenario, it did make me appreciate the AST change, if only for the moment. Can't say a gap closer would've helped me much there lol

oh I def think ast is the better of the two, but I'm more refering to the fun aspect. Ast for me just isn't fun anymore in DT, as it feels so slow compared to what it was. Whm gapcloser is just fun to use, even tho it might not be the best in saving lives ^^

[Gullis]

"gap closer"????

tell me why, as a WHM, I need to get closer to anything thats going to attack? if I use it, its to get myself out of an AOE...

as for Ast, I still see a lot of them

its just the term I used,nothing more, call it what you want.

"Gap-closer refers to an ability to get to the point you are trying to reach faster, and closing the gap between the two points." seems right to me

[Rolder50]

Did notice the other day that I had to wait a little over 5 minutes as a tank for an Expert roulette.

[BunnyQueen]

Did notice the other day that I had to wait a little over 5 minutes as a tank for an Expert roulette.

Noone wants to heal, it is braindead easy.

[Basteala]

Noone wants to heal, it is braindead easy.

Honestly, at least for casual players (high level I can't speak for as outside of EXs we don't have a lot to work with yet), the Arcadion raids are certainly a step in the right direction.

Could still do with more than one core DPS button, especially as people learn the fight, but at least shit hurts without vuln stacks.

[Wildheaven182]

I guess I'm a casual because I don't play savage. I mostly play roulettes and try out new jobs, but I still want normal content to be more engaging, especially for healer.
I dunno, I consider myself midcore. I would be interested in savage if it wasn't just studying to take a test. You study the guides, then execute the aoes perfectly or fail.