#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[gllt]

As someone who has been a part of a lot of beta tests for games, all the threads are giant arguments like this with conflicting ideas and disagreements about what works or is good for the game.

And they all worked out fine. It's up to the devs how they want to handle and implement feedback. Even if we had a much more nice and neat presentation and we all agreed on the exact same changes, the devs decide what happens at the end of the day. They could ignore us and turn us down all the same. And for the same reasons they could look at this giant mess and pick out some ideas to try.

It's kind of part of the job. Like it just comes with the territory of player feedback and testing. It's never neat and orderly and it never will be. And the devs knew that going into this. Why do you think Square shut down the forums before? They knew it was going to be a nightmare. On the other hand, the devs knew the nightmare was necessary.

I come here to engage in discussion and give my honest feedback as it is, not dress it up in hopes of making it more palatable to the developers. I try to remain pleasant because I believe that it's good to treat my fellow players and otherwise with respect whenever possible.

I think that's good enough. Truly good developers will take advice from anyone and anywhere. If advice is good, the bad vibes of the post or poster it came from are irrelevant. I'm not saying it's okay to be annoying, hateful, or anything like that. I'm just saying that it's a developer's job to look at things relevant to their job and separate it from who said it, how, or why they said it, and instead analyze it on its own as a piece of game development advice or theory.

So I'm not really worried that all the healers are disorganized or have differing opinions or whatever, or that we might have some kind of image problem with this movement. I do not think any of that matters as much as some of you think it does.

[aiqa]

People disagree strongly on the details, but there are more generic ideas that most healers seem to agree on: Damage buttons need more variation. Outgoing unavoidable damage is to low in many bossfights. Heals from other roles shouldn't rival or eclipse the heals from healers.

And sure you can find a few people who disagree with those points. But to me it seems most healers agree on them.

[Aword3213]

Though I'm always against green DPS concept and I will die on that hill, that doesn't mean I can't be on the same side with other healer striker.

Healer as a role has been at terrible state for years. I welcome any changes that could potentially save healers from this sorry state.

If SE chose to go with green DPS route, I still can adapt it, embrace it and enjoy it. At least it's better than what we have now. It's also hard to disagree with how little impact adding various dps options would bring compared to increasing healing requirement. Not to mention green DPS fits current combat design better due to scripted fights and the amount of avoidable damage in general.

Even though I personally dislike revisions posted by other fellow posters, I still think those revisions would provide more engaging gameplay than current healers. I don't mind if the dev team decided to enforce green DPS concept. I don't think people need to have unanimous opinions in order to support healers asking for change.

In addition, AFAIK, many suggestions and feedbacks provided by many other were made with accessiblity in mind. I still struggle to identify where "people want complex rotation for healers" is coming from.

[Souljacker]

Though I'm always against green DPS concept and I will die on that hill, that doesn't mean I can't be on the same side with other healer striker.

Healer as a role has been at terrible state for years. I welcome any changes that could potentially save healers from this sorry state.

If SE chose to go with green DPS route, I still can adapt it, embrace it and enjoy it. At least it's better than what we have now. It's also hard to disagree with how little impact adding various dps options would bring compared to increasing healing requirement. Not to mention the green DPS fits current combat design better due to scripted fights and the amount of avoidable damage in general.

Even though I personally dislike revisions posted of other fellow posters, I still think those revisions would provide more engaging gameplay than current healers. I don't mind if the dev team decided to enforce green DPS concept. I don't think people need to have unanimous opinions in order to support healers asking for change.

In addition, AFAIK, many suggestions and feedbacks provided by many other were made with accessiblity in mind. I still struggle to identify where "people want complex rotation for healers" is coming from.

I do mind that they want to embrace "green dps". Green DPS is just not healing, so rename these to some other kind of damage dealer and remove healers entirely from the game.

The other thing they could do is actually put some effort into the jobs and instead of making everything under a role a cookie cutter of each other, give each an actual identity and place in a party that is more like what we've seen in previous titles. I know balance is hard work. They are making MORE than enough money to hire some more really talented number crunchers.

What I'd like to see is a return to the classic support, damage dealer, healer, tank roles we had in XI. And anyone who says it couldn't be done here, I say look at the XI team who overcame so many crazy limitations over the years, this studio has TOP TALENT. If we raise our expectations as players, they WILL give us challenging and engaging jobs. But we have to stop asking for silliness like "I want more dps buttons to press on my white mage". You can't do that and in another thread complain that jobs don't have identity or class fantasy. It shows a fundamental misunderstanding of what the job is supposed to do in the first place, and this game is weaker for it.

[gllt]

I disagree that class fantasy has to be defined so rigidly or not be experimented with but all the same I'd be happy to play a game with the type of job diversity you're talking about even if it meant healers lost all DPS abilities. I'd probably pick up some kind of support job. Well actually I'd just play everything like I already do, but still.

As long as the game isn't boring slop.

But like WHM doing damage to me is natural because I grew up with FF Tactics and the Holy spell so while I'm certainly not asking for DPS buttons to get added to WHM the idea of it being a pure healer only makes sense to me in non FF contexts (I'm just giving you my perspective here on class/job fantasy, I don't want to argue that I'm right or anything, I haven't even played all FF games or engaged with a lot of non FF Western style fantasy settings and experiences. I do get the vague idea of a white mage being a dedicated healing archetype though)

My bigger concern is that even if you can balance that, balance isn't really the issue they want to solve. I feel like they just want to solve people being mad about balance. And the whole wanting to play any job in any content thing.

Maybe you can still marry the concept of a game more like XI in terms of role design with balance and kits that don't create content that favors certain jobs over others but I have no clue

[Aword3213]

The other thing they could do is actually put some effort into the jobs and instead of making everything under a role a cookie cutter of each other, give each an actual identity and place in a party that is more like what we've seen in previous titles. I know balance is hard work. They are making MORE than enough money to hire some more really talented number crunchers.

I agree with you, but I think balance is a lie perpetuated by CBS III so they can homogenize jobs. They keep dumbing down jobs over the years, somehow they still fail to achieve job balance. A good example is Picto, a job that brings party utility and damage buffs while also outperforms DT BLM by a mile in terms of damage output. There are more examples, but this is not the time nor the place.

What I'd like to see is a return to the classic support, damage dealer, healer, tank roles we had in XI. And anyone who says it couldn't be done here, I say look at the XI team who overcame so many crazy limitations over the years, this studio has TOP TALENT. If we raise our expectations as players, they WILL give us challenging and engaging jobs. But we have to stop asking for silliness like "I want more dps buttons to press on my white mage". You can't do that and in another thread complain that jobs don't have identity or class fantasy. It shows a fundamental misunderstanding of what the job is supposed to do in the first place, and this game is weaker for it.

Your vision parallels to mine. I personally would love more support oriented gameplay than doing DPS as healers. However, I don't want to collide my vision with others here. I think this healer strike is a step towards making SE ackowledge issues in healer role, and I want to focus on supporting the strike rather than debate.

[Ozmandis]

I'm late to the party but seriously, why do people make it such a big deal ? Healers have a right to have fun as much as every person paying a sub. They are not happy with their jobs so they play something else until something is done.

For all I know, everybody is playing their job for their own sake so why are so many people mad that healers want to do the same ? The question is obviously semi-rethorical : they don't want their queues to be even longer but can't be bothered to play healer themselves and I wonder why.

They can throw as many bad faith arguments they want, we all know this is the thing that is bothering them but they can't admit it and find excuses because they know deep down it's insane to force someone who is paying for a service to do something they do not enjoy.

EDIT : added meme

[Kes13a]

I agree with you, but I think balance is a lie perpetuated by CBS III so they can homogenize jobs. They keep dumbing down jobs over the years, somehow they still fail to achieve job balance. A good example is Picto, a job that brings party utility and damage buffs while also outperforms DT BLM by a mile in terms of damage output. There are more examples, but this is not the time nor the place.

I disagree with you on this point. Balance is not a lie by CBU 3 at all. the mythical "balance" is a concept thats been around in mmo's for as long as I can remember. great gaming companies have long sought this beast and few obtain it unless they only have 1 class/job. because i is impossible to find. even with 1 class/job it is hard to find, why? because you cannot balance out people.

the PLAYERS scream for "balance". because even with one job, as we know, everyone has different skill levels. so damage output will always be.... different. some people do no like less, so they complain. FFXIV has what.... 30 jobs now? and people beg for more. if we can expect variations in play between two people on a single class/job.... how much more is to be expected with 30+ jobs and hundreds of thousands of people? look around, its US that perpetuated the lie of balance.

if we want unique jobs, we have to allow the jobs to be unique, some will output more damage, some will do less. the problem with that is, then some jobs will be less desirable because of that. because the collective 'we' as players cannot allow that. the whole 'meta' concept is based on "optimal", speed running roulettes, its why tanks pull wall to wall now.. not because its a load of fun, but because people want to rocket through things. why cant you read notes and things in dungeons? because thats not "optimal".

we have asked for "balance", the players, not CBU 3. we expect fast runs, and anything that gets in the way of fast, and smooth, and lowers our output, is seen as bad for balance. asking for our fun back as well? thats a crime because it will interfere with the "balance" I imagine and thats what most fear.

Edit: this mythical "balance" and fun cannot co-exist. I play jobs I find fun. they dont have to be OP, but they have to be enjoyable to play. if they do good healing, or good dps, thats a bonus. fun creates OP jobs for a cycle, but not forever. OP creates complaints from others of the job class who want o do the same.. and the balancing ruins all jobs. if you think hard about it, you can see this is true. accessibility has little to do with it. if we can one day accept the imbalances, which I doubt will happen, then job uniqueness can rreturn, along with the fun.

[Ozmandis]

I disagree with you on this point. Balance is not a lie by CBU 3 at all. the mythical "balance" is a concept thats been around in mmo's for as long as I can remember. great gaming companies have long sought this beast and few obtain it unless they only have 1 class/job. because i is impossible to find. even with 1 class/job it is hard to find, why? because you cannot balance out people.

the PLAYERS scream for "balance". because even with one job, as we know, everyone has different skill levels. so damage output will always be.... different. some people do no like less, so they complain. FFXIV has what.... 30 jobs now? and people beg for more. if we can expect variations in play between two people on a single class/job.... how much more is to be expected with 30+ jobs and hundreds of thousands of people? look around, its US that perpetuated the lie of balance.

if we want unique jobs, we have to allow the jobs to be unique, some will output more damage, some will do less. the problem with that is, then some jobs will be less desirable because of that. because the collective 'we' as players cannot allow that. the whole 'meta' concept is based on "optimal", speed running roulettes, its why tanks pull wall to wall now.. not because its a load of fun, but because people want to rocket through things. why cant you read notes and things in dungeons? because thats not "optimal".

we have asked for "balance", the players, not CBU 3. we expect fast runs, and anything that gets in the way of fast, and smooth, and lowers our output, is seen as bad for balance. asking for our fun back as well? thats a crime because it will interfere with the "balance" I imagine and thats what most fear.

I agree with everything you said. I think SE should simply balance the game such that every job is viable even if there is a huge gap between them. They should simply add to the ToS that excluding someone based on their job is a bannable offense even inside PFs. It's absolutely crazy how many people insist on playing "meta jobs" when they can't even juice out 30% of their potential while they'll be doing litterally more damage by just playing summoner.

[Kes13a]

I agree with everything you said. I think SE should simply balance the game such that every job is viable even if there is a huge gap between them. They should simply add to the ToS that excluding someone based on their job is a bannable offense even inside PFs. It's absolutely crazy how many people insist on playing "meta jobs" when they can't even juice out 30% of their potential while they'll be doing litterally more damage by just playing summoner.

balance is only needed in PVP. outside of that... in an mmo world where we are playing with other people, its really not needed since we are "on the same side" against npc enemies.