#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Ruruura]

here you go. Even the vaunted WoW has noticed a problem with tanks being unkillable. a little knowledge of the issue goes a long way.

https://www.wowhead.com/blue-tracker...94517#24223979

Yes but as i said and i assume you know, in WoW tanks are literally unkillable even in completely unreasonable situations and can effectively and speedily solo current content.
FFXIV tanks are not even close to what WoW tanks are so pretending the issue is the same and tank self-sufficiency needs to go is ridiculous.

And i used WoW like i could use any other MMO where tank self-sufficiency is high, which is like 8 mmos out of 10.

Healer fantasy and fun should not come from tanks essentially becoming DPS players who can mitigate tank busters and can aggro a lot.

[Supersnow845]

Yes but as i said and i assume you know, in WoW tanks are literally unkillable even in completely unreasonable situations and can effectively and speedily solo current content.
FFXIV tanks are not even close to what WoW tanks are so pretending the issue is the same and tank self-sufficiency needs to go is ridiculous.

And i used WoW like i could use any other MMO where tank self-sufficiency is high, which is like 8 mmos out of 10.

Healer fantasy and fun should not come from tanks essentially becoming DPS players who can mitigate tank busters and can aggro a lot.

And that’s our entire point

Tanks functionally don’t exist in this game as tanks, they are DPS with some mitigation and a lot of healing. You don’t want healer fantasy to reduce tanks to “DPS but ones who take the tankbusters” but that’s not healers fault, that’s them stripping out literally anything that actually make a tank a tank from 14’s tanks.

Denying healer gameplay in a hard trinity which is healing primarily of the tank because if you did it that way tanks would just be DPS isn’t a healer problem that’s a tank problem

[LyraShu]

Yes but as i said and i assume you know, in WoW tanks are literally unkillable even in completely unreasonable situations and can effectively and speedily solo current content.
FFXIV tanks are not even close to what WoW tanks are so pretending the issue is the same and tank self-sufficiency needs to go is ridiculous.

And i used WoW like i could use any other MMO where tank self-sufficiency is high, which is like 8 mmos out of 10.

Healer fantasy and fun should not come from tanks essentially becoming DPS players who can mitigate tank busters and can aggro a lot.

And I don't think we are saying the self-sustain needs to fully go, but I would say that there is a bit. In fact, if I want to be lazy and not care while I am in Deep dungeons, I play tank so I don't need to use potions. If I wanna actually have harder gameplay, I play dps.

Oh, and this is taken also from that wow page because they are saying all the right things~

"Tanks will still have strong answers to threats or periods of danger, but less sustained self-healing.

Tanks should have autonomy over their own survival and will still have cooldowns or emergency self-heals like Renewal or Impending Victory. But the healing of continuous effects like Elune’s Favored or Indomitable are reduced, so tanks must have more of a partnership with healers to restore their missing health once it’s lost."

[IDontPetLalas]

here you go. Even the vaunted WoW has noticed a problem with tanks being unkillable. a little knowledge of the issue goes a long way.

https://www.wowhead.com/blue-tracker...94517#24223979

Thanks, if only FFXIV would align in future with that.

[Kacho_Nacho]

here you go. Even the vaunted WoW has noticed a problem with tanks being unkillable. a little knowledge of the issue goes a long way.

https://www.wowhead.com/blue-tracker...94517#24223979

I never thought I'd see the day when a blue post from WoW stated exactly what Final Fantasy XIV needs to do for the health of the MMO. If only we could get a similar post from Yoshi... it doesn't even need to be the same actions. We just want some acknowledgement that there is a problem and they are taken steps to address it.

Waiting two or so years for something to happen in 8.0 is much too long. It's a ridiculous to expect customers to be patient for that amount of time.

[Striker44]

I never thought I'd see the day when a blue post from WoW stated exactly what Final Fantasy XIV needs to do for the health of the MMO. If only we could get a similar post from Yoshi... it doesn't even need to be the same actions. We just want some acknowledgement that there is a problem and they are taken steps to address it.

It wouldn't be the first time. Yoshi-P took a lot of inspiration from WoW back when designing 2.0 and effectively took the good ideas that WoW had discarded and incorporated them here instead. But I'm not sold on this particular one. WoW long ago chose to go all-in on the e-sports approach. That specific post that you're quoting is precisely about "the hardest content in the game." We're over here in FFXIV, which is not an e-sports game and is designed for a very different audience, talking about what happens in content across the board. That specific post you're quoting is focused on the veteran, highly-skilled players. Over here, we're talking about sweeping changes that would impact the typical, average player.

Waiting two or so years for something to happen in 8.0 is much too long. It's a ridiculous to expect customers to be patient for that amount of time.

You have to consider the larger playerbase, not just the minuscule few who are vocal on the forums. Suddenly making a big change that satisfies a few grains of sand while eroding half the beach doesn't help. The month and a half or so that this "strike" has been going on has only shown that many people "on strike" are now happily playing other jobs, while other players have slid right in to take their place healing. That doesn't suggest a need to make any significant changes at all, let alone right this moment.

[BunnyQueen]

here you go. Even the vaunted WoW has noticed a problem with tanks being unkillable. a little knowledge of the issue goes a long way.

https://www.wowhead.com/blue-tracker...94517#24223979

FF14 needs to take some tips from WoW for once instead of the other way around. ROFL!

[Shurrikhan]

Tanks having self sustain and lots of it is not a new concept in MMOS, if you think FFXIV tanks are self-sufficient just wait until you see what a geared tank can do in a game like WoW where it is not only that they do not need healers, they do not need the dps either as they can solo normal content and even still relevant raids on their own.

FFXIV´s tank self sustain s not the issue nor the reason why healing in FFIXV is in the situation it is, and it is just a lazy "solution" that would affect the rest of us.

So again, keep us out of your problems.

I mean, doing normal content as a geared player late xpac in WoW is akin to doing last expansion's early content unsynced here but also with actual ability to kite. It's a bit apples to oranges.

Agreed that reducing tank sustain isn't really the answer, though. (Though I'd happily see passive %DR greatly reduced, thereby placing more emphasis on the active skills, even if they have to get a use or two more per minute to compensate.)

[Ruruura]

The problem is that it is extremely hard to balance tanks to feel tanky and satisfying to play while also making them dependant on healers because you require me to hurt in order to play your fantasy, but me hurting too often kills my fantasy.
I do not think this problem could be solved without heavily redesigning all tanks around defense and party protection (Perhaps more mechanics requiring tanks to do stuff like paladin wings instead of the current wack-a-dodge)

But i do not have faith on them doing any of this, so what i fear is for them to just nerf us to appease you somewhat, and neither of us truly getting what we want, which is more likely what is going to happen.

[LyraShu]

The problem is that it is extremely hard to balance tanks to feel tanky and satisfying to play while also making them dependant on healers because you require me to hurt in order to play your fantasy, but me hurting too often kills my fantasy.
I do not think this problem could be solved without heavily redesigning all tanks around defense and party protection (Perhaps more mechanics requiring tanks to do stuff like paladin wings instead of the current wack-a-dodge)

But i do not have faith on them doing any of this, so what i fear is for them to just nerf us to appease you somewhat, and neither of us truly getting what we want, which is more likely what is going to happen.

Personally, I think that is kinda fair to say.

I will say that in the current day, I had to force myself to play healer for my friends and it was just because of the 100+ casts of my 1 ability in a trial, not really from the other job's abilities. I do get, quite often, poked at for trying to mit the tank during a tank buster though also in the current gameplay so I agree, there is a balance between too much self-sustain and not enough.

Really though, IF there is an answer that comes out from this, I just hope that it becomes an interesting change and one that doesn't invalidate anyone's jobs.