#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[flowerkatie]

Would you like to use your Phone-A-Friend for this one

This is the response of somebody who's original post wasn't trolling, by the way.

And (once again) we're wondering why I've come to disagree with so many of these suggestions.

[ForsakenRoe]

This is the response of somebody who's original post wasn't trolling, by the way.

The original post was not trolling. That one was. If you cannot tell the difference between the two, well, there's no point continuing what little discussion was being had.

You are not the first person I have asked the question to. You will not be the last. You also were not the first person to dodge answering it, or ignore it entirely. In fact, I was hoping you'd be the first to do so. Because not a single person I've asked has answered. You can call it 'pointless' or 'waste of time' or whatever, but if you're going to say 'This is how to fix healers' on a public forum, you'd better be able to back that assertion up. And you haven't. Doing the maths to work out how much healing a Job puts out over a given timeframe is incredibly simple. It took me 45 seconds, of which 30 was waiting for Indom to come back off cooldown. If you really don't have time to spend like, a minute doing the maths, then I'd recommend not being on the forums at all

Edit: If I'm 'trolling', you should probably block me, rather than responding to me

[Bobby66]

Say we do up the healing required, begs the question if we up the damage to a point that even offsets self sustain from other classes that means a group would be at the mercy of the healers no? Is that really wise when people are already complaining about how difficult DT normal mode content is?

I just don't see how they can do enough to up the amount of healing that would feel impactful on a healer in normal mode content.

Edit: I agree a certain amount of stress should come into play with normal mode content to push people to get better, but that push has to come in baby steps, problem is do we really trust SE to do that?

[PercibelTheren]

Say we do up the healing required, begs the question if we up the damage to a point that even offsets self sustain from other classes that means a group would be at the mercy of the healers no?

I have made a post about this before but I think the crux of the issue is that there is no clear image of what healers are supposed to be.

If they're supposed to be the person keeping the party alive, then we absolutely need higher healing requirements but we also need to be fine with having to trust the healers to do their job. We rely on tanks to keep aggro and, to a lesser extent, to position the boss. A bad tank can murder the group by cleaving people with AoE attacks - I see tanks bouncing aggro on Calofisteri and cleaving the group with Haircut regularly. I have been killed by stuff like Heavenly Heel, too. But I don't see any argument saying we need to take that responsibility away from tanks or simplify them because some poeple mess up. If anything, all I'm seeing is displeasure over tanks losing the responsibility to position the boss because of the tendency of every boss to constantly teleport. We also trust DPS to press their buttons in harder content because otherwise the boss will enrage and wipe the group. That's something literally nobody else can do anything about it. Early in the patch, people not pulling their weight DPS-wise is a massive problem. Once again, nobody is asking for DPS to be changed or for this responsibility to be taken away. I personally think it's just because a bad healer is more obvious. It's just that acting like healer is the only one who can ruin a run, which a lot of people do, is silly because it's patently not true.

Option two is that we want healers to be less "keeps the team alive" and more of a support. In that case, healers need something instead/in addition to their bloated healing kit because they don't heal much. The easiest way out is probably a simple DPS rotation and more buff/debuff abilities. I think AST cards were a really good solution until they were turned into just more healing in DT. There are hints of a system like this on every healer, they would just need expanding.

I get it. Having a bad healer is painful. Now that I've switched to DPS, I see just how many clueless people are playing the role. But that's because the game never really forces you to get better at your job and doesn't offer any substantial guidance on how to improve. You really shouldn't have to go digging through wikis and Discord servers to learn how to play the game properly. The game itself should tell you that.

[Kijok]

Is this strike some kind of joke that I'm too noob to understand?
People complaining that other roles have self healing abilities that make healer useless and obsolete?
Then why in the content I'm playing I have to jiggle every single ability in my healers kit and still see other players die while all of my skills are on cd?
It would be more challenging and interesting to have party 100% rely on healers even in normal content, yes, but people already complain about normal content difficulty. Do we really need to spike the difficulty if healer is bad?

[PercibelTheren]

Then why in the content I'm playing I have to jiggle every single ability in my healers kit and still see other players die while all of my skills are on cd?

Couple possible reasons:

- people running around in grey MSQ gear
- people eating avoidable damage
- DPS and tanks allergic to using their mitigations and self-heals
- trash in dungeon not dying fast enough due to low DPS
- in 8 player content, possibly a garbage co-healer (this one is only an issue until you outgear the content, at which point you can solo heal most Extremes and many Savage floors without being particularly skilled)

[Bobby66]

I have made a post about this before but I think the crux of the issue is that there is no clear image of what healers are supposed to be.

No one said that a healer is the only role that can ruin a run, but being as this is about healers people are talking about healers. Yes, AST cards were awesome when they more utility based, but they were removed for a reason chances of us getting a more utility based or support healers is probably not very likely. Yes more DPS skills would be nice to press, but even then at a basic level people would still probably be bored with that. In terms of rotation for a healer to fit within their vision of healers and not wanting to push healers to think they need to do good damage and also heal the DPS rotation on paper does much change from 111111 or 123123?

What makes rotations fun is the builder spending aspect. I mean that seems to be the general fear of SE if they put a focus on a dps system for healers, healers will feel more like a green dps and tbh every sign seems to show SE does not really want that even if they say otherwise. In theory they could make healers more needed by making tanks overall more squishy without removing tools from them not by much but just enough where maybe more GCD heals are needed either through tempo increase or raw damage increase. Yes, the vision is not clear and they should be more clear about it.

[Kes13a]

No one said that a healer is the only role that can ruin a run, but being as this is about healers people are talking about healers. Yes, AST cards were awesome when they more utility based, but they were removed for a reason chances of us getting a more utility based or support healers is probably not very likely. Yes more DPS skills would be nice to press, but even then at a basic level people would still probably be bored with that. In terms of rotation for a healer to fit within their vision of healers and not wanting to push healers to think they need to do good damage and also heal the DPS rotation on paper does much change from 111111 or 123123?

What makes rotations fun is the builder spending aspect. I mean that seems to be the general fear of SE if they put a focus on a dps system for healers, healers will feel more like a green dps and tbh every sign seems to show SE does not really want that even if they say otherwise. In theory they could make healers more needed by making tanks overall more squishy without removing tools from them not by much but just enough where maybe more GCD heals are needed either through tempo increase or raw damage increase. Yes, the vision is not clear and they should be more clear about it.

heck, I dont want to be a 'green dps'. all I want, is when things are going well, I can dps, which is fine, but healing should be something that I dont have to rely on bad groups for.

[Evergrey]

heck, I dont want to be a 'green dps'. all I want, is when things are going well, I can dps, which is fine, but healing should be something that I dont have to rely on bad groups for.

I agree. A toolkit shouldn't be limited to when a group isn't paying attention but help in such situations.
The risk however if healers gets more DPS skills to flesh it out is that we'll be back to ARR when groups got mad at healers not using said DPS skills when there's no healing to be done.
We could be back to groups shadow kicking healers for not playing "optimal" simply because they are playing healers to heal and not to deal damage.
This isn't a job design flaw but a people problem.
Also, if healers do get more DPS skills content would have to get adjusted for that extra DPS meaning that a healer who doesn't DPS will bring the rest of the group down.
Which would only fuel the group members pressure on the Healers.

This was removed before due to the splitting and toxicity of the playerbase so I don't see SE going back to such times anytime soon.
Not until people can be trusted to not bash on people not performing optimal.

[Bobby66]

heck, I dont want to be a 'green dps'. all I want, is when things are going well, I can dps, which is fine, but healing should be something that I dont have to rely on bad groups for.

Yeah I do not want green dps either, and yeah it is a weird feeling when I am happy when I get a bad group I am happy as a healer, hell when I queue with friends I tell my buddy tank to remove gear and still go hard. We do fine that is were I got the idea about maybe lowering the overall DR of tanks without removing tools. It is fun to do, but I can also see such things stressing out players and while they stated they want some degree of stress idk if we will see that in normal mode content beyond what we are seeing ATM.

But healers already are green DPS, just a garbage one that keeps spamming one button.

Yes, but I don't see them adding more depth of a DPS rotation that requires some effort to execute based off that 2021 interview it seems they do not want healers to have to worry about doing good damage and good healing. So at best they give is more buttons to press but at the core what is different from 111111 and 123123.

As stated what makes a rotation fun is some aspect of building and spending. More utility focus would also be nice like old AST cards but those were removed for a reason. We cannot ignore that stuff was removed or changed for a reason. Any change will have an impact in another aspect. Say they add more complexity to rotations and class play. That would require adjustments with overall content and who knows how the overall community will take to that. This is not an easy fix for SE.

I agree. A toolkit shouldn't be limited to when a group isn't paying attention but help in such situations.
The risk however if healers gets more DPS skills to flesh it out is that we'll be back to ARR when groups got mad at healers not using said DPS skills when there's no healing to be done.
We could be back to groups shadow kicking healers for not playing "optimal" simply because they are playing healers to heal and not to deal damage.
This isn't a job design flaw but a people problem.
Also, if healers do get more DPS skills content would have to get adjusted for that extra DPS meaning that a healer who doesn't DPS will bring the rest of the group down.
Which would only fuel the group members pressure on tchaincs he Healers.

This was removed before due to the splitting and toxicity of the playerbase so I don't see SE going back to such times anytime soon.
Not until people can be trusted to not bash on people not performing optimal.

Exactly, like it or not things were changed or a reason. We need to keep remember this.