#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Ramiee]

"Tab Target" is not a genre.

Yeah it is, Its a common community labelled genre.
WOW, FFXIV, LOTR Online, GW2 and Runescape 3 are all labelled as tab target MMOs. This is an extremely common term I am shocked you have never come a cross it.

Then go back to Western MMORPG's and what do we have...
1. Minecraft (modded)
2. WoW
3. SWTOR
4. Star Trek Online
5. ESO
6. Fallout76

Of these maybe SWTOR isn't ugly.

Ok? This is opinion based. There is no objective correct opinions. I like how WOW looks and don't like how BDO looks. WTF is this even about? How is this relevant to healer gameplay?

Basically what I'm saying here is a lot of these Japanese and Korean games tend to market on the character designs.
--Meanwhile FFXIV is over here and going "Hey you can play all the jobs on one character! Look at how much less time you have to commit!"

Asian players tend to care more about how the game looks (again , look at how much the JP side cares about animations) over functionality. Players can complain all they want about Healers being a 1-button DPS in all the MSQ content.

Okay? I am not a JP player I disagree fundementally with their opinions if they all have this exact same opinion. Even if the game is focused on JP players more, they have a western forums and have listened to it before. Im sure that the french and german forums also have disagreements with our ideas too. I am not going to change my opinions just because of JP priority.

The easiest rip-off-the-bandaid approach Square Enix can take is to just disable all the DPS buttons in Trial and Raid content on the healer. --disable the self-healing buttons on all the DPS and the Tank. Healing should be amplified on the Tank if they are using their mitigations correctly. But players don't want to play content differently. They want to treat all content like a DPS, because SE keeps making the encounter design that way where half the boss fight is just dodging optional damage rather than bleeding.

Yeah but healer damage is needed to pass during the first few months, look at p8s. Heal bot gameplay will kill the role completely, for the entirety of the early 2000s healers in the popular MMOs were designed around only healing during raids and this in turn led to the role being INCREDIBLY unpopular.
The second WOW came out with cata which had added damage optimisation for healers the role became far more popular, this is what ARR was based on btw. So the main problem with trying to turn healers into healbots is that FFXIV was built from the ground up with healers dealing damage in mind.
Unless they decide to completely rework the core game and rebalance literally everything the easiest way to fix this problem will always be giving healers more interesting dps.

[KisaiTenshi]

Yeah it is, Its a common community labelled genre.
WOW, FFXIV, LOTR Online, GW2 and Runescape 3 are all labelled as tab target MMOs. This is an extremely common term I am shocked you have never come a cross it.

All "tab target" means is that it can only played with a keyboard and mouse. Nothing else. FFXIV can be played with a controller, and in order to do that, it has to reduce the amount of buttons you can press to about 8.

Ok? This is opinion based. There is no objective correct opinions. I like how WOW looks and don't like how BDO looks. WTF is this even about? How is this relevant to healer gameplay?

I didn't say that made them bad. WoW looks 20 years old because IT IS 20 years old. There is no amount of lipstick you can paint on it that will not make it feel 20 years old.

A lot of these "pretty games" from Asia have short life spans too because people over there are not as attached to physical or virtual items as westerners are. Western players get absolutely enraged when you take away the things they earned in a game.

Yeah but healer damage is needed to pass during the first few months, look at p8s.

It's only needed to cheese the raid before everyone has geared up, they are not designed for the healer to be required to DPS. The developers are on record about this.

Fundamentally the problem is that they designed the core game mechanic around DPS, and haven't given healers any thought to how they should work since ARR. Look how samey-same the healers play. Look at how little damage healers and tanks actually do. They know that if they made all roles straight DPS in the first place, every fight would just be a "how fast can I burn this boss down" contest and players would become super toxic in group play because they would all believe they are in competition with each other.

How the developers want the game to work and how players believe it should work can be at odds, but right now it's mostly "at odds" with the western playerbase more than the Japanese playerbase, and that's because they want the roles to be exactly what they are supposed to be and not "Every role to be the same as a DPS".

Less people forget that Final Fantasy has an identity, and trying to change that identity is just not going to happen. The White Mage is always going to be a healer first, and is lucky to even have DPS actions since it doesn't in other games since mechanically it should only be able to damage undead.

[Wildheaven182]

A lot of these "pretty games" from Asia have short life spans too because people over there are not as attached to physical or virtual items as westerners are. Western players get absolutely enraged when you take away the things they earned in a game.

I would like to introduce you to japanese idol culture and hikikomori video game no life shut ins. There's a reason they can't allow any of the scions to have romance dialogue with players. Because Japanese players will go rabid over who is the "real" partner to their favorite npc. Idol culture is actually the theme of the tournament raid series.
But it is true that they are also generally much less attached to the secular, being largely shinto. Whereas atheism is big in the west which is entirely secular and believes exclusively in the secular, so there is nothing else to existence than one's physical possessions.

[Magikazam]

All "tab target" means is that it can only played with a keyboard and mouse. Nothing else. FFXIV can be played with a controller, and in order to do that, it has to reduce the amount of buttons you can press to about 8.

No, tab target mean your mmo combat is based around selecting a target to use your move. FFXIV and WoW have you select a target when using single target skill. Meanwhile a non tab target mmo like BDO let you spam you attack anywhere, any time. It has nothing to do with keyboard or controller.

I didn't say that made them bad. WoW looks 20 years old because IT IS 20 years old. There is no amount of lipstick you can paint on it that will not make it feel 20 years old.

False, Just play WoW retail then jump on WoW classic and trust me, only one of them feel like a 20 years old game. Just like Dawntrail don't feel or play at all like ARR/HW Era FFXIV.

It's only needed to cheese the raid before everyone has geared up, they are not designed for the healer to be required to DPS.

It not ''cheese'' your party just can't perfom enough dps to past enrage if healer don't contribute, unless people are overgeared. They don't even need to output tons of dps but it is required, unless we assume dev are bad at balancing the content at minimum required gear level since the past few xpac (unlikely).

Fundamentally the problem is that they designed the core game mechanic around DPS, and haven't given healers any thought to how they should work since ARR.

Agains false, Healer weren't alway healbot and used to have more complex dps ability in mind, just similar to how modern tank got both mitigation and an actual dps rotation and damage OGCD.

Less people forget that Final Fantasy has an identity, and trying to change that identity is just not going to happen. The White Mage is always going to be a healer first, and is lucky to even have DPS actions since it doesn't in other games since mechanically it should only be able to damage undead.

Ever heard of Holy? it a staple spell for White mage even back in FF1, where it was, the second strongest damaging spell in the game. How about all the wind damage spell they get in FF3? That also leaving all their debuff spell like toad or mini. While it true White mage is a healer foremost, it is far from lacking any offensive ability in it identity, like Do you know how much Holy is influencial in term of JRPG?

I also don't see you complain about DRK lacking their iconic self damaging skills or Warrior having access to OP gears and several type of weapons.

[ForsakenRoe]

It's only needed to cheese the raid before everyone has geared up, they are not designed for the healer to be required to DPS. The developers are on record about this.

People have done maths and shown that you'd need a team of high-parsing (eg 90+) players, all with the BIS for the tier (including the weapon, which requires killing the boss in the first place), to beat the 4th fights on some raid tiers without healers dealing any damage. It's mathematically impossible to clear an ultimate without healers contributing damage.

The idea that we're 'cheesing' fights by having healers deal damage is laughable. If you want to stick to the 'healers should only heal' mantra that's been dead and buried for years, you're more than welcome to. In content that doesn't demand healers deal damage, such as EX roulettes or Maps or whatever, you can do whatever floats your boat. The moment you set foot in content that has a Stone Sky Sea challenge attached (which requires that you, a healer, do damage to beat), then the expectation is that you deal damage to help beat the content.

As for 'the devs said so', yes, like 7 years ago. Times change. Additionally, they've said a lot of dumb stuff in interviews that can be easily disproven (eg, that time Yoshi-P said SCHs were forcing WHMs to do all the healing, charts from the time showed the two were equal. If it were today, because mit now counts as HPS, SCH would be miles ahead.)

[Kozmakis]

I did not do PvE as a healer in SWTOR but it was fun in PvP, since it used same PvE skills. Keeping yourself and allies alive when people are actively trying to burst you down was very engaging challenge which is on completely opposite side of how healing feels in FFXIV.

It was so funny as Sorcerer to cast Force Barrier at <10% hp in the middle of the arena, while 5-6 people keep trying to kill you haha So much fun with funny utility spells...

But we digress... I have a question - I checked out the new Extreme Dungeons. Don't worry, it was on a stream, not in-game, I don't have a DPS at level 100 yet, leveling is super slow with these dungeon queues. They don't look that hard, if you know the mechanics; at the same time they look punishing for healers, there's a lot of pressure to not get oneshot (even with 0 vulnerability stacks) from almost insta-cast red circles, which might happe while resurrecting others... There's like no learning curve for your role, just the content, and if the DPS keep dying even with Swiftcast CD reduction it looks probable you might end up slow-casting res... I want to ask the people, who completed them - is that a fair assumption? I am considering playing them on my Sage to check them out, but only after I cancel the auto-renewal of my subscription beforehand, so I am not sure... Let me know, thanks!

[Isala]

It was so funny as Sorcerer to cast Force Barrier at <10% hp in the middle of the arena, while 5-6 people keep trying to kill you haha So much fun with funny utility spells...

But we digress... I have a question - I checked out the new Extreme Dungeons. Don't worry, it was on a stream, not in-game, I don't have a DPS at level 100 yet, leveling is super slow with these dungeon queues. They don't look that hard, if you know the mechanics; at the same time they look punishing for healers, there's a lot of pressure to not get oneshot (even with 0 vulnerability stacks) from almost insta-cast red circles, which might happe while resurrecting others... There's like no learning curve for your role, just the content, and if the DPS keep dying even with Swiftcast CD reduction it looks probable you might end up slow-casting res... I want to ask the people, who completed them - is that a fair assumption? I am considering playing them on my Sage to check them out, but only after I cancel the auto-renewal of my subscription beforehand, so I am not sure... Let me know, thanks!

I healed them. They're not punishing. I DPSed them. The healers died, and it still didn't matter. The non-Warrior tank and I lived to the end of the bosses anyway. Still no effort required even in "expert" dungeons.

[Kozmakis]

I healed them. They're not punishing. I DPSed them. The healers died, and it still didn't matter. The non-Warrior tank and I lived to the end of the bosses anyway. Still no effort required even in "expert" dungeons.

Well, there you go I might give them a try then... I am still curious as tio why they are homogenising jobs altogether by having a learning curve mainly for the content, not as much for the role.. I mean, once you learn the mechanics, your job matters way less...

[ViaDesperare]

Pretty common in the Crystal DC, but healer quality has really dropped. This was for a farm party.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Pretty common in the Crystal DC, but healer quality has really dropped. This was for a farm party.
[IMG]

Me seeing the pic: