#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Supersnow845]

I don't think a tank should be able to survive a bossfight without the support of a healer so I do think that their self sustain should have a look over by the devs.
I've seen tanks try to solo a boss if the rest of the group dies early, sure.
But if the boss is at high HP more often than not do the tank suicide and we restart the encounter. No screaming and most of the times not even a word uttered.
I can't however recall to ever have experienced a tank trying to kill the other party members. That sounds like an abnormally to me.

So I can't tell from personal experience that I've ever felt it causing a friction in a party.
To me, what people talk about tanks trying to solo Bosses and trying to kill team mates doesn't feel very common.
I can't say that it isn't or not ofc. But I've never noticed anything ingame that would point towards it being one.

Tanks attempting to actively murder the healer to solo is definitely an anomaly (though one that wouldn’t exist if the tanks couldn’t solo the boss) but from all the listening posts I have access to the tank silently deciding to solo the boss has become a massive annoyance in DT that people aren’t happy with and it’s because the tank players aren’t actually better than anyone else, they just have an inbuilt 80% damage down that means they just tank mechanics that others die to then say it’s a skill issue

[Mortex]

Like when I don’t heal or have my friends heal for me I get the most impressive glue sniffers as healers you can find (I’m pro healer strike so I find this not even bad it’s just amazing how bad these players are). Doesn’t matter what fight if it’s dungeon or even ex trials. The number of absolut bottom of the barrel healer has gone up by a mile.

And then I thought the content was fun again because no way In hell people struggle this bad and I started lvl and playing healer in the ex fights and it’s still as boring as before. I can watch doctor house and the boys with my friends while doing this content and brain afk. Also good lord my co healers in 90 % of these ex fight groups are these glue sniffer that deal under 6 k dmg and heal less then I do.
Also every party looks almost all the time for healers and sometimes p range cause they are not well liked also.

[Aravell]

Come on you know this is not true, many healers back in the day complained about how they spent more time doing damage verse healing and how they wanted more healing actions. The rolled healer to heal not dps etc... Also it was healer players that complained tanks were annoying to heal due to smaller HP cause of DPS accessory usage.

How nice of you to dismiss my experiences with your own.

No, I did not see any healers complaining about that. When I played back then, healers were pressured to turn OFF Cleric Stance, not turn it on. Parties were content with letting the healer do nothing but heal. Even when I was farming extremes, I was told to not turn on Cleric Stance at all.

Complaints come form both sides but it does make more sense to cater to the larger demographic. I say this as a SMN main since HW. I miss my old smn but majority did not like it so it makes sense to turn it into something more people will play. They are just doing the same with healers and unfort I bet their data will show the strike has not had a major impact to healer numbers.

The thing here is, you don't know that they're catering to a larger demographic, you're assuming that they are, but they've been known to make bad decisions before.

Also, the vast majority of players are silent for a reason, they likely do not care one way or another, so they'd play the jobs they enjoy no matter what. Why should these players be included in the discussion?

In the end, everything is going to be minority vs minority, there is no majority position here.

[Bobby66]

How nice of you to dismiss my experiences with your own.

No, I did not see any healers complaining about that. When I played back then, healers were pressured to turn OFF Cleric Stance, not turn it on. Parties were content with letting the healer do nothing but heal. Even when I was farming extremes, I was told to not turn on Cleric Stance at all.



The thing here is, you don't know that they're catering to a larger demographic, you're assuming that they are, but they've been known to make bad decisions before.

Also, the vast majority of players are silent for a reason, they likely do not care one way or another, so they'd play the jobs they enjoy no matter what. Why should these players be included in the discussion?

In the end, everything is going to be minority vs minority, there is no majority position here.

I am sure SE has the data that supports the changes they make. I doubt they are making changes based off their on whims, I doubt we would have a game that is growing in population and popularity if they were doing that.

Let be fair the healers were pressured to keep it off were because people could afraid they were going to wipe the group, just like how people pushed some tanks to not use dps stance and stay in tank stance for aggro reasons.

In the end SE has the data and they will use that data to support their choices, their data must have supported the complaints or I doubt they would have changed it.

[GartredZW]

I am sure SE has the data that supports the changes they make. I doubt they are making changes based off their on whims, I doubt we would have a game that is growing in population and popularity if they were doing that.

Let be fair the healers were pressured to keep it off were because people could afraid they were going to wipe the group, just like how people pushed some tanks to not use dps stance and stay in tank stance for aggro reasons.

In the end SE has the data and they will use that data to support their choices, their data must have supported the complaints or I doubt they would have changed it.

They had data back then, and changed the design philosophy based on player feedback, and how the game played after changes. Just because they have raw numbers doesn't mean they completely and perfectly understand what those numbers mean, or even how to perfectly design in a way to fix these issues. Mistakes are made, and lessons are learned.
Doesn't mean I, or anyone in this thread knows the exact solution to solve this problem, but we don't need to be experts to know that there's an issue in the first place.

Edit: Congrats everyone on 700 pages. How far we've come with so many repeated arguments.

[Isala]

They had data back then, and changed the design philosophy based on player feedback, and how the game played after changes. Just because they have raw numbers doesn't mean they completely and perfectly understand what those numbers mean, or even how to perfectly design in a way to fix these issues. Mistakes are made, and lessons are learned.
Doesn't mean I, or anyone in this thread knows the exact solution to solve this problem, but we don't need to be experts to know that there's an issue in the first place.

Edit: Congrats everyone on 700 pages. How far we've come with so many repeated arguments.

They keep claiming "player feedback", but honestly, I call BS. I truly believe they've gotten up their own asses with the ego that caused them to make the terrible decisions that led to 1.0 again. That mentality of "We know what our players want better than they do!" that they got stuck in over the massive success of XI. Heavensward was such a resounding success, that it was the peak of the XIV experience. Every expansion since then, has been a decline. Not to say that they were bad. But they did not reach HW's lofty heights. And now they're doubling, and tripling down on some really asinine decisions, all in the name of "player feedback" that doesn't even exist. Nobody is saying the things they're claiming we are. Even JP is questioning their decisions.

[Aravell]

So the current design of parties screaming at each other because the tank thinks it’s their god given right to solo the content isn’t creating friction in the party

The one time I decided to queue as a healer to help a friend the tanks explicitly tried to kill me on sphene because I was the only one besides them who survived clusterfuck phase (and I mean I did it right, they both survived with 4 vuln stacks)

We don’t need to attempt to actively disrupt other people (and we don’t want to because we value our accounts) the current game design already does it for us

Apparently 'tanks murdering everyone else and wasting everyone's time by taking 10 minutes to solo' is good friction and 'healers pressing the wrong button and someone dying' is bad friction.

[Supersnow845]

If anything the tanks inherent immortality is just increasing the stress on the healer for no benefit because the healer is the DPS only defence against the tank wasting everyone’s time but the healer has no engagement to go with this

And somehow the braindead DPS blame the healer for not surviving to keep them alive when they all end up stuck watching the tank when the question should be “why is the tank allowed to do this”

[Bobby66]

If anything the tanks inherent immortality is just increasing the stress on the healer for no benefit because the healer is the DPS only defence against the tank wasting everyone’s time but the healer has no engagement to go with this

And somehow the braindead DPS blame the healer for not surviving to keep them alive when they all end up stuck watching the tank when the question should be “why is the tank allowed to do this”

For what it is worth I think many do feel tanks doing their 90 to 0 boss kills is extremely BM.

[Aravell]

I am sure SE has the data that supports the changes they make. I doubt they are making changes based off their on whims, I doubt we would have a game that is growing in population and popularity if they were doing that.

Let be fair the healers were pressured to keep it off were because people could afraid they were going to wipe the group, just like how people pushed some tanks to not use dps stance and stay in tank stance for aggro reasons.

In the end SE has the data and they will use that data to support their choices, their data must have supported the complaints or I doubt they would have changed it.

You seem to be arguing from the position that SE has the data and so they cannot make the wrong decision.

We have seen that they have made a lot of decisions that were received very badly before, so just because they have the data still doesn't automatically mean they make the correct (or even the best) decisions.

The only difference here is that you have faith in SE, we don't.