#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Rolder50]

This is trying to have it both ways for MSQ. Again, the MMO industry tried a game with high stakes for everybody for even baseline content in Wildstar and it failed miserably.

Stop bringing up Wildstar, that game died because it had a terrible, bug filled launch moreso then anything else. I know cause I was there.

[Punslinger]

This is trying to have it both ways for MSQ. Again, the MMO industry tried a game with high stakes for everybody for even baseline content in Wildstar and it failed miserably.

No, Wildstar failed because its devs built a "raid-or-die" MMO and then made the raids require 40 people.

People who have played WoW Classic realized that, with the better understanding of the game mechanics that WoW players have now, the old 40-man raids from Vanilla were never actually all that difficult. The hardest part was just getting 40 people together on one night.

There were high stakes for healers in WoW back during what its players unanimously agree were its glory days: Burning Crusade and Wrath. Those were the days of Heroic dungeons where parties had to watch for patrols, and every pull involved multiple pre-planned uses of CC. And yet, things still got cleared by non-raiders. Huh.

And there were high stakes for healers in FF14 back during what its players unanimously agree were its (mechanical) glory days: HW and SB. Those were the days of Cleric Stance, and multiple DoTs to juggle, and AST's old card system, and needing to Esuna WARs when they used Berserk. And yet, things still got cleared by non-raiders. Huh.

The person who claimed tank does not have a redundancy is technically incorrect due to the presence of healer LB3 in raids and in theory a healer could raise and keep the party up just long enough in MSQ content to allow the party to recover (again, we are using MSQ as the baseline here and not savage/extreme).

You say that healer jobs aren't allowed the slightest bit of complexity because lil' babby heawers need to be carried through the MSQ uwu. And then you turn around and argue "well asckslhuallyyly, tanks have a redundancy because LB3, which is only available in raids and not MSQ dungeons."

Pick a lane already.

[Supersnow845]

The pugslinger guy name calling is missing my points entirely and being too emotional. I'm trying to offer my analysis from the business side and corporate line of thinking as to WHY this is happening and what a proposed solution would be. I did the OG steps of faith back in the day pre-nerf and tried Alexander savage prenerf. However, I care about new player retention and having played mostly PvP mmos over the years that have been axed and quit League of Legends myself, I "faced the music" myself in acknowledging economics and needing to appeal to as many people as possible for current MMO design and that is what it is. I really think a lot of the "pro strikers" in this thread are missing the importance of redundancy in game design and the win-win solution is to address healer's lack of redundancy by giving everyone a rez.

What people need to realize is SE puts the guardrails on healer because healer is the one role without a redundancy in MSQ and therefore is exposed to highest "single point of failure" and player retention issues that come with that (ex: vote kick threats from frustration, risk of not clearing, etc.). DPS and tank both can rely on a good healer as a redundancy in MSQ along with the lack of enrage timer meaning the 2 DPS are backups to each other. To solve this issue, give everyone a rez or allow everyone to use a rez item (ex: phoenix feather) and healer suddenly now has a redundancy and SE can feel comfortable removing the absolute guardrails on healer.

In other games they balance "everyone has a rez" by tracking the number of rezzes during an instance (basically a global amount of lives and cap it) so that's how you balance the difficulty for higher end. Allow everyone to use a rez item but track number of rezzes and use that as a way to promote difficulty in higher end instances or perhaps lets say the last trial of a MSQ.

you aren’t getting the response you want because you are arguing with a strawman none of us is saying

We are fine not being the single point of failure in the party. We don’t want the healer role to dictate the entirety of the dungeon (or whatever casual content). I physically cannot say this anymore (literally look up my past 01029510692069 posts on this issue and they will all say the same thing) RAISE THE CEILING NOT THE FLOOR.

If x person needs 1010593 guide rails to play healer FINE, they can have them, but for those of us who don’t need those guide rails you need to give us something to do that’s not broil spam, this is the long and short of the argument, healers are BORING and that’s totally independent of redundancy in resurrection

[Auteur]

you aren’t getting the response you want because you are arguing with a strawman none of us is saying

We are fine not being the single point of failure in the party. We don’t want the healer role to dictate the entirety of the dungeon (or whatever casual content). I physically cannot say this anymore (literally look up my past 01029510692069 posts on this issue and they will all say the same thing) RAISE THE CEILING NOT THE FLOOR.

If x person needs 1010593 guide rails to play healer FINE, they can have them, but for those of us who don’t need those guide rails you need to give us something to do that’s not broil spam, this is the long and short of the argument, healers are BORING and that’s totally independent of redundancy in resurrection

To use your allegory then what I'm saying is you won't be able to convince SE to raise the ceiling unless you could guarantee the floor won't drop. Alternatively, you change the paradigm to "harden" the floor (ex: give everyone a rez but introduce a different difficulty down the line like capping the number of rezzes in an instance) to reduce the singular pressure on a healer. I will also say other people in this thread are saying things like "I don’t think healers need this redundancy. I think it’s fine they might get kicked if their bad gameplay prevents progress" and wanting higher stakes for healers. This will not convince SE in my opinion, this goes against their paramount goal of overall player retention and majority rule. You would have to convince SE the floor won't move or the floor would clearly increase before they will consider moving the ceiling up.

[Silver-Strider]

To use your allegory then what I'm saying is you won't be able to convince SE to raise the ceiling unless you could guarantee the floor won't drop. Alternatively, you change the paradigm to "harden" the floor (ex: give everyone a rez but introduce a different difficulty down the line like capping the number of rezzes in an instance) to reduce the singular pressure on a healer. I will also say other people in this thread are saying things like "I don’t think healers need this redundancy. I think it’s fine they might get kicked if their bad gameplay prevents progress" and wanting higher stakes for healers. This will not convince SE in my opinion, this goes against their paramount goal of overall player retention and majority rule. You would have to convince SE the floor won't move or the floor would clearly increase before they will consider moving the ceiling up.

The floor is literally at the bottom of the Mariana Trench because a healer can be dead while the boss has 70% HP left and you can still clear the dungeon without issue. The only way that the skill floor can get any lower is if they introduce auto play at this point and trusts aren't that far off from doing just that.

[Grann-Goro]

The floor is literally at the bottom of the Mariana Trench because a healer can be dead while the boss has 70% HP left and you can still clear the dungeon without issue. The only way that the skill floor can get any lower is if they introduce auto play at this point and trusts aren't that far off from doing just that.

Pretty much...
Actually, I recently tried to do dungeons without a healer (sync of course) and you barelly see any real différence in the entire experience ! It's not only doable, it's pretty much the exact same experience, aka easy ! No special strategy or coordination required, can 2-packs no problem, etc...
Of course, the tank has to manage his cooldowns though...

I played Paladin and I had 3 DPS with me.
I did "The Vault", "Tower of Zott" (hardest dungeon of all Endwalker) and "Tower of Babil", each one with a different group of people. Result of the test : not a single wipe and only 2 deaths in total (because of mistakes).

But wait, it gets worse.
I did another experience after that where I launched a sync level 90 dungeon SOLO. No other player, no trusts ! And it appeared to be doable too !!
It's just very long and tedious, and you have to run a little to keep up with the timer, but it works !!

Paladins are sooo broken and indestructible it's insane !
As a consequence, healers are totally useless in the main content (because yes : dungeons are the main content, and as such they are supposed to be enjoyable in some sort by anyone, including main-healers !)

EDIT : and about "auto-play" : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlc-QtQxGys

[gllt]

Even if it makes money, games that appeal to the lowest common denominator constantly are bad and it's fine to criticize. Everyone deserves better than broil spam. You can even make a game where one person can spam broil and make it through the dungeon and I can have a more fun rotation and make it through 1-2 minutes faster.

The only "issue" would be someone whining that they can't do the rotation and therefore also clear MSQ content slightly faster and then I would look at them funny because it isn't necessary to clear the content comfortably. Give me room to express myself as a player and simultaneously give other players the freedom to take it easy. These are not incompatible ideas as long as they are implemented correctly. And I'm not going to be offended by a healer sticking to broil spam if it gets the job done as much as I wouldn't be offended by them having to drop DPS to power heal for a moment.

Are we worried people will be mad at a healer for being able to do a slightly more optimal rotation for damage output and watching them choose to broil spam anyways? Because I think that's a player problem and not a game design problem. The game should not be catered to prevent accidentally offending people.

I haven't played a job I didn't like in this game really, in any role, but I haven't found many jobs I love. BLU is some of the most fun I'm seemingly allowed to have and it's relegated to side content.

I don't care if the Tank and DPSes have flexible options that break role stereotypes and allow them to function without healing. I want that kind of thing. I love that WAR can heal itself so much. I want to have something to do when that's happening and healing DPSes from guaranteed damage isn't that. But I also think the content should allow you to get by with broil spam if it makes you happy.

I don't need anything to be harder for anyone else, I need my job to be stimulating enough of my own accord to choose to be able to do something other than broil spam with no outside reasoning or pressure to do so other than "it would be fun" and be rewarded with a little more damage that isn't necessary to clear.

The only players who I'm tired of aren't casual, midcore, or hardcore but people who can't mind their own business. If you play DPS because you think it's more fun then go buzz off and play DPS and let me yell about healing. I think YOUR role, that I also play, should be more interesting and also leave you to enjoy your current gameplay if so desired.

I don't want to get to current expac gameplay or play harder optional content just to feel something. I want to get you through queue times so you can have fun playing DPS however you want to play it. When I do old content in roulette, all I hear is that it's boring for DPS players and that we need to do it as fast as possible. Skip every chest, don't pull that mob. "I only have 1 GCD at this level, I'm booored." Really? That's crazy.

[TsubameMikage]

I don't want to get to current expac gameplay or play harder optional content just to feel something. I want to get you through queue times so you can have fun playing DPS however you want to play it. When I do old content in roulette, all I hear is that it's boring for DPS players and that we need to do it as fast as possible. Skip every chest, don't pull that mob. "I only have 1 GCD at this level, I'm booored." Really? That's crazy.

"Wait, other jobs get more than 1 GCD? All I have is Stone/Glare all the way to 100!"

If any DPS ever complained about not having any options to use in combat in low level content, I'd love to remind them healer's get their full rotation at level 4 and it doesn't really change for the next 96 levels.

[Ayalu]

I will also add once more that a Class can be easy but not boring. But Yoshida already confessed they overdid it with the simplification. We can hope that the strike rises awareness enough that when the change happens it will make everyone happy.

[CaptainLagbeard]

I will also add once more that a Class can be easy but not boring. But Yoshida already confessed they overdid it with the simplification. We can hope that the strike rises awareness enough that when the change happens it will make everyone happy.

I still think the best way for the developers to become fully aware of the state of Healers would be to get them to play through the entirety of the game as a healer, from character creation to the end of DT. The most being allowed for other roles would be ACN to 30 for SCH.

I don't think Healers aside from AST would have stayed roughly the same for the entirety of ShB, EW and now DT if the people in charge of making the Jobs actually played the game.