#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Supersnow845]

^the problem with that line of thinking is that if you don’t want the healer to be the fail point (which is a totally fair viewpoint to have I’m not disagreeing with that) you HAVE to give healers something else to do. I don’t think anyone wants the healer to be the single fail point of the content, just not for them to go so far in the other direction as to make the healer near redundant

I’m not particularly against the idea of tanks being able to defend an ally for example (though I don’t think they need such powerful heals to accomplish it) but if you don’t want me as the fail point you have to give me something to do that’s not broil spam

Also can we please go one anti strike comment without evoking the use of the “you are elitist” or “you are casual”, somehow I can debate with you without evoking a random insult that adds nothing to your. Argument

[Auteur]

^the problem with that line of thinking is that if you don’t want the healer to be the fail point (which is a totally fair viewpoint to have I’m not disagreeing with that) you HAVE to give healers something else to do. I don’t think anyone wants the healer to be the single fail point of the content, just not for them to go so far in the other direction as to make the healer near redundant

I’m not particularly against the idea of tanks being able to defend an ally for example (though I don’t think they need such powerful heals to accomplish it) but if you don’t want me as the fail point you have to give me something to do that’s not broil spam

Also can we please go one anti strike comment without evoking the use of the “you are elitist” or “you are casual”, somehow I can debate with you without evoking a random insult that adds nothing to your. Argument

I think the reality folks need to acknowledge is MSQ content has to appeal to the lowest common denominator to maintain player retention because everyone would have to go through it to progress the story. Consider that with no enrage timer, a dps could play with the most "boring" or suboptimal way possible of just spamming one skill over and over without doing rotations, and you could eventually get the clear with the other party members playing "optimally." Again, the "strike promoters" have a more credible argument about higher end content (ex: very fair concern if healer is deemed not necessary for HM or extremes), but this discussion should be separated from MSQ and the practical reality MSQ really does have to appeal to the lowest common denominator (and high end raiders are not exposed to this reality because they don't deal with pug queues ever, and are basically out of touch with regular players at this point).

[Supersnow845]

I think the reality folks need to acknowledge is MSQ content has to appeal to the lowest common denominator to maintain player retention because everyone would have to go through it to progress the story. Consider that with no enrage timer, a dps could play with the most "boring" or suboptimal way possible of just spamming one skill over and over without doing rotations, and you could eventually get the clear with the other party members playing "optimally." Again, the "strike promoters" have a more credible argument about higher end content (ex: very fair concern if healer is deemed not necessary for HM or extremes), but this discussion should be separated from MSQ and the practical reality MSQ really does have to appeal to the lowest common denominator (and high end raiders are not exposed to this reality because they don't deal with pug queues ever, and are basically out of touch with regular players at this point).

That doesn’t fix the problems that healer just isn’t fun in casual content

I have plenty of fun in casual content in PCT, why should healer be boring in casual content and no other role just to “appeal to the lowest common denominator”

[Auteur]

That doesn’t fix the problems that healer just isn’t fun in casual content

I have plenty of fun in casual content in PCT, why should healer be boring in casual content and no other role just to “appeal to the lowest common denominator”

Because it is in SE's interest to avoid single points of failure in the "casual" or regular MSQ content that everyone has to go through. The healer is the redundancy for DPS and tank. The second DPS is also the redundancy for the first DPS because of no enrage timer. With the exception of RDM/summ rez, there is no redundancy for a healer. Therefore healer is the most likely the one to get the "axe" in terms of complexity or stakes because SE's primary goal for MSQ or "casual" content is accessibility. Again, Wildstar was not economically viable and complexity does not work for the baseline "casual" content; it just doesn't sell or retain.

I think for SE to be comfortable taking the guard rails off healer for MSQ content, every DPS class and tank would have to be given a resurrection ability. Sounds extreme, but this means that healer has a natural redundancy built in now (where healer otherwise is the sole role that does not have a redundancy), and then the concerns about healer being single point of failure are lessened. If anything, the "strike promoters" should be arguing everyone gets a rez so SE feels more comfortable of lowering the healer guardrails.

[Supersnow845]

Because it is in SE's interest to avoid single points of failure in the "casual" or regular MSQ content that everyone has to go through. The healer is the redundancy for DPS and tank. The second DPS is also the redundancy for the first DPS because of no enrage timer. With the exception of RDM/summ rez, there is no redundancy for a healer. Therefore healer is the most likely the one to get the "axe" in terms of complexity or stakes because SE's primary goal for MSQ or "casual" content is accessibility. Again, Wildstar was not economically viable and complexity does not work for the baseline "casual" content; it just doesn't sell or retain.

I don’t really understand why you are conflating “fun” with redundancy. Right now whether you think modern healers are hard or easy we can all agree that square enix “desires” to keep the floor for all classes very low and have a lot of redundancy built in

The problem with healers is when that redundancy isn’t needed they have nothing to do. The tanks get their rotations and their mitigations, the DPS get their rotations and their utility. The healers get…………1111111111 and a bloat of overpowered heals.

Nobody is asking to raise the floor (which is why the wildstar comparison is totally redundant) people want a higher skill ceiling so if me or the co healer is competent and we don’t need the excessive amount of redundancy built into casual content they have something else to do. This could be damage options, it could be buffs, it could be utility, it could be debuffs, just anything that’s not 1111111111111111 for those of us who don’t need the 0195010601962069296 layers of redundancy square bakes into casual content

We are literally just asking to be treated like the tanks are

[Dogempire]

Because it is in SE's interest to avoid single points of failure in the "casual" or regular MSQ content that everyone has to go through. The healer is the redundancy for DPS and tank. The second DPS is also the redundancy for the first DPS because of no enrage timer. With the exception of RDM/summ rez, there is no redundancy for a healer. Therefore healer is the most likely the one to get the "axe" in terms of complexity or stakes because SE's primary goal for MSQ or "casual" content is accessibility. Again, Wildstar was not economically viable and complexity does not work for the baseline "casual" content; it just doesn't sell or retain.

I think for SE to be comfortable taking the guard rails off healer for MSQ content, every DPS class and tank would have to be given a resurrection ability. Sounds extreme, but this means that healer has a natural redundancy built in now (where healer otherwise is the sole role that does not have a redundancy), and then the concerns about healer being single point of failure are lessened. If anything, the "strike promoters" should be arguing everyone gets a rez so SE feels more comfortable of lowering the healer guardrails.

Eh, disagree on the second healer not being redundant, good healers can solo heal all content, even ultimates.

Because there's no limit to how many people you can hit with an AoE heal (Well, besides how many people you can have in your party) if you can heal 4 people, you can heal 8. It especially becomes less of a problem when people aren't getting blasted by failing mechanics constantly.

It's especially less of an issue if you're playing AST/WHM because god forbid you run out of OGCD heals you can just use Medica/Aspected Helios once, and because of how infrequent damage is in 99% of content the regen does all the heavy lifting for you.

The second healer is just there to make healing easier, and honestly because of how bad most healers are at letting regens do their work you can just ignore healing the party entirely if you're a second healer. For some reason DF healers have gotta keep that overheal% above 150% and pop big cooldowns at even the slightest scratch or scrape.

[Rolder50]

Consider that with no enrage timer, a dps could play with the most "boring" or suboptimal way possible of just spamming one skill over and over without doing rotations, and you could eventually get the clear with the other party members playing "optimally."

So let me ask this, if they give healers a few extra DPS buttons, what is stopping these one button individuals from just... still only using one button? No one is gonna break into their house and force them to engage more if the dont want to.

That aside, I have to wonder who is having a good time doing MSQ with current healers. There's nothing to heal, so whenever the game does toss a solo instance or whatever at you, it's just your two buttons the entire time.

[TsubameMikage]

I think the reality folks need to acknowledge is MSQ content has to appeal to the lowest common denominator to maintain player retention because everyone would have to go through it to progress the story.

No, the MSQ has little to no bearing on player retention as it's not the main gameplay loop. Once you complete the MSQ, it's over. However, the DF experience is far more relevant to those metrics, and right now their brain-dead simplicity is actually doing more harm to player retention than the MSQ ever could prevent.

Consider that with no enrage timer, a dps could play with the most "boring" or suboptimal way possible of just spamming one skill over and over without doing rotations, and you could eventually get the clear with the other party members playing "optimally." Again, the "strike promoters" have a more credible argument about higher end content (ex: very fair concern if healer is deemed not necessary for HM or extremes), but this discussion should be separated from MSQ and the practical reality MSQ really does have to appeal to the lowest common denominator (and high end raiders are not exposed to this reality because they don't deal with pug queues ever, and are basically out of touch with regular players at this point).

Most players never step foot into higher end content. Claiming we have to have a subpar, or even 'braindead' experience so that we don't unsub is kind of.. backwards?

[Rolder50]

Another thing to consider with that line of thinking, is that even with a group of average joes, the vast majority of your time in group content will be doing DPS. Heck I'd wager thats the case even if you have the worst group known to man. What is wrong with asking for more buttons when the majority of your gameplay is doing that DPS?

[Myrany]

FYI for you guys there are apparently a few people out there actively trying to give the strike/strikers a black eye by going into instances as healer then proclaiming the hashtag and refusing to heal. I have encountered 1 so far on Dynamis and my brother has encountered 1 on Elemental and that is just today.

Reported and vote kicked but it is happening.