#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Kaixern]

There is an amazing example of good healers over in World of Warcraft, where the healers 1) Have more to heal, 2) Have more interesting heals with more interactions between abilites, AND 3) Have more interesting DPS options. And it doesn't affect the floor really because the floor is the ability to do normal mode dungeons and LFR, both of which are supremely easy with the occasional exception, which is usually mechanics related rather then healing related.

Wait a minute, i have it, just a second

Looks at his notes

Ah here it is!

Go back to WoW then if you are not happy here!



Did i say the line in a good way? the script was a bit folded, sorry.
(also was it on the healer bingo, i don't recall)

[Gullis]

I sit here watching this and for funsies queued dutyfinder with a smn since I was distracted by all these threads..... and in expert roulette had 3 party wipes due to mistakes by a healer that couldn't keep up and yet "we don't need healers anymore" and we had the god tier warrior tanking that supposedly can replace a healer

can't have been a godlike warrior if he didn't manage to solo the dungeon. what dungeon was that?

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

Wait a minute, i have it, just a second

Looks at his notes

Ah here it is!

Go back to WoW then if you are not happy here!



Did i say the line in a good way? the script was a bit folded, sorry.
(also was it on the healer bingo, i don't recall)

I love how "go back to WoW if you don't like it here" is actually a response, like damn would it cost us an arm and a leg if we actually had things that didn't encourage people to swap games and enjoy staying where they are?

[KitiaraIornsight]

can't have been a godlike warrior if he didn't manage to solo the dungeon. what dungeon was that?

Lunar Sub..... but remember the whole argument is that a Warrior as a tank means healers are irrelavent and yet, the majority of my runs as a healer and as a dps says otherwise. But nooooooooooooooooo healers aren't needed, isn't that the point of the thread? Because a God Tier uWu tank cleared with 3 dps and no heals. I mean... Warriors don't need healers right? Yet somehow mine couldn't live once the healer ate mechanics and died.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

Lunar Sub..... but remember the whole argument is that a Warrior as a tank means healers are irrelavent and yet, the majority of my runs as a healer and as a dps says otherwise. But nooooooooooooooooo healers aren't needed, isn't that the point of the thread? Because a God Tier uWu tank cleared with 3 dps and no heals. I mean... Warriors don't need healers right? Yet somehow mine couldn't live once the healer ate mechanics and died.

Are you really using the lowest common denominator here to argue that "healers are still needed, here is why"? Sorry, it doesn't matter how many healers and warriors you bring, if players are bad at mechanics they will die regardless. It is when people actually have a breath and a pulse in their system that things turn to spoiled milk for healers.

It does not take a god-tier savage/ultimate raider playing Warrior in a 1-3 healerless setup. It takes one that is at least semi-aware of mechanics and spreads out his cooldowns a bit between Bloodwhetting / Nascent Flash uses while occasionally healing a party member. You don't need to be a big-time raider to do this, you need basic intuition.

[KitiaraIornsight]

Are you really using the lowest common denominator here to argue that "healers are still needed, here is why"? Sorry, it doesn't matter how many healers and warriors you bring, if players are bad at mechanics they will die regardless. It is when people actually have a breath and a pulse in their system that things turn to spoiled milk for healers.

It does not take a god-tier savage/ultimate raider playing Warrior in a 1-3 healerless setup. It takes one that is at least semi-aware of mechanics and spreads out his cooldowns a bit between Bloodwhetting / Nascent Flash uses while occasionally healing a party member. You don't need to be a big-time raider to do this, you need basic intuition.

but that is the crux of the issue as a whole. The vast majority of the player base are HYPER casual players. They are not good at their jobs. Its a small minority that can pull of the things that everyone claims make healers irrelavent in the current state of the game.

[GrimGale]

Lunar Sub..... but remember the whole argument is that a Warrior as a tank means healers are irrelavent and yet, the majority of my runs as a healer and as a dps says otherwise. But nooooooooooooooooo healers aren't needed, isn't that the point of the thread? Because a God Tier uWu tank cleared with 3 dps and no heals. I mean... Warriors don't need healers right? Yet somehow mine couldn't live once the healer ate mechanics and died.

Just watch the actual run goddamn.

The whole thing complaint about Xeno clearing without healers is that it makes really evident how little healing actually is needed, not the fact that it was run without a healer. If even your non healers can produce enough self sustain to complete a dungeon that means that the healing gameplay is basically barren when we were promised an "updated" battle system in Dawntrail. We have been hoping for six years already that the justification for our DPS kits to be pruned down to 1 nuke and 1 DoT would be "more actual healing to do". But with Xeno's run it became clear that is not going to be the case yet AGAIN.

[aiqa]

but that is the crux of the issue as a whole. The vast majority of the player base are HYPER casual players. They are not good at their jobs. Its a small minority that can pull of the things that everyone claims make healers irrelavent in the current state of the game.

For the easier content, where the hyper casual players struggle, a DRK is already a valid tank. But that same DRK can't easily do the biggest pulls in those same dungeons without healer support. So apparently it's possible to service both hyper casuals, without making healers irrelevant for somewhat more competent players.

[KitiaraIornsight]

Just watch the actual run goddamn.

The whole thing complaint about Xeno clearing without healers is that it makes really evident how little healing actually is needed, not the fact that it was run without a healer. If even your non healers can produce enough self sustain to complete a dungeon that means that the healing gameplay is basically barren when we were promised an "updated" battle system in Dawntrail. We have been hoping for six years already that the justification for our DPS kits to be pruned down to 1 nuke and 1 DoT would be "more actual healing to do". But with Xeno's run it became clear that is not going to be the case yet AGAIN.

I did watch the run. I watched it twice.
edit to add:
I also understand what a months old build of a TEST dungeon means. Very well things will change with it. I also understand the group playing, they also all died several times, it took them nearly a half hour to clear the dungeon because of this and because of no healer..... The average run of the mill tank in the game, including casual warriors are not capable of doing what they did.
Also Yoshi P in a current interview specifically stated the difficulty level will be increased in EXPERT dungeons, the level 100 ones, they are going to keep the skill floor low for the story dungeons.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

but that is the crux of the issue as a whole. The vast majority of the player base are HYPER casual players. They are not good at their jobs. Its a small minority that can pull of the things that everyone claims make healers irrelavent in the current state of the game.

So we should balance and design the game around players diving below the skill floor instead? I'm sorry, for how long do we want to enable hypercasual behaviour and when are we allowed to expect them to actually step it up a bit? We are approaching Lv100 for christ's sake.

The existence of hypercasuals unable to do things without a basic setup and still dying does not deny the fact that the moment they aren't hypercasuals you can actually do 1-0-3 parties with a warrior or have the healer be bored out of their mind between filler, dot and using a heal once a minute or 30s to recover "half" the HP lost over that time frame.