#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[HighlanderClone]

Attitude like yours is exactly why the movement is getting so much unneeded pushback. It's one thing to say "I want to have fun." That generates empathy and understanding. It's entirely different to say "I want to have fun, but I believe the only way for me to have fun is for all of you to not have fun!" It's selfish and stupid.

Pls bro, look at a mirror. Emphasis mine.

All I said to you that power creep is a thing.

[HighlanderClone]

the tanks need to be nerfed to have this work

In addition to this, the point is literally that EVERYONE's healing bloat should be nerfed including healers.

[PercibelTheren]

I've been following this thread since it started and trying to keep up with all the replies. More and more I'm convinced that the core issue of the whole situation is the trinity itself and the fact that different people want Healer to mean different things. I'll try to explain what I mean.

On one side, we have people who think that a healer's primary role is to heal. However, if we want a healer's main thing to be healing, the healing requirements need to go up severely so that healers don't mash their one damage button 60% of the time. More importantly, people need to be willing to put trust in the healer to keep them alive and, as we're continuing to see, many are not. Case in point, all the people complaining about not wanting to be "held hostage" by bad healers not pushing their buttons.

This leads us to the other side of the conversation - the people who don't want the party's survival to be reliant on a healer. The problem here is that if the healer isn't primarily healing, we need to give that player something else to do. The most straightforward answer to this issue is a more complex DPS rotation, essentially turning the current heal dispenser design to something more of a hybrid support. If we don't want to do that, healers need a different gimmick. The argument against this that I see most often is "but bad players" - well, then it needs to be a gimmick that's not essential for Normal content but very helpful in Extreme and up, something that will keep the skill floor low and allow overwhelmed newbies to pull through without properly understanding it but also raises the skill ceiling by allowing for optimization.

Personally, I'd be perfectly OK with either option. I like keeping the party alive, running triage and saving pulls that went horribly wrong. I also enjoyed Astrologian specifically because it gave me something to do besides spamming Fall Malefic and waiting for the scheduled every-30-seconds raidwide. Is there a happy medium to be found? I have no idea, unfortunately. All I know is that I'm unhappy with the current state of both healer jobs and fight designs where healers are heal dispensers with few opportunities to actually do that dispensing.

[Supersnow845]

I've been following this thread since it started and trying to keep up with all the replies. More and more I'm convinced that the core issue of the whole situation is the trinity itself and the fact that different people want Healer to mean different things. I'll try to explain what I mean.

On one side, we have people who think that a healer's primary role is to heal. However, if we want a healer's main thing to be healing, the healing requirements need to go up severely so that healers don't mash their one damage button 60% of the time. More importantly, people need to be willing to put trust in the healer to keep them alive and, as we're continuing to see, many are not. Case in point, all the people complaining about not wanting to be "held hostage" by bad healers not pushing their buttons.

This leads us to the other side of the conversation - the people who don't want the party's survival to be reliant on a healer. The problem here is that if the healer isn't primarily healing, we need to give that player something else to do. The most straightforward answer to this issue is a more complex DPS rotation, essentially turning the current heal dispenser design to something more of a hybrid support. If we don't want to do that, healers need a different gimmick. The argument against this that I see most often is "but bad players" - well, then it needs to be a gimmick that's not essential for Normal content but very helpful in Extreme and up, something that will keep the skill floor low and allow overwhelmed newbies to pull through without properly understanding it but also raises the skill ceiling by allowing for optimization.

Personally, I'd be perfectly OK with either option. I like keeping the party alive, running triage and saving pulls that went horribly wrong. I also enjoyed Astrologian specifically because it gave me something to do besides spamming Fall Malefic and waiting for the scheduled every-30-seconds raidwide. Is there a happy medium to be found? I have no idea, unfortunately. All I know is that I'm unhappy with the current state of both healer jobs and fight designs where healers are heal dispensers with few opportunities to actually do that dispensing.

I will also note just to add a thought to this.

for me while I’m happy with either option I would vastly prefer the more complex damage route and it’s for the reason that whatever class you play your character is the WOL. The WOL is the strongest being in the world functionally I want to feel powerful on the class I call my main. Pure healing is a good feeling in a party environment but I don’t think it carry’s the “feeling” of the WOL as well as being a hybrid healer who is also a formidable caster

I still want my WOL to look intimidating in cutscenes

[Flay_wind]

More importantly, people need to be willing to put trust in the healer to keep them alive and, as we're continuing to see, many are not. Case in point, all the people complaining about not wanting to be "held hostage" by bad healers not pushing their buttons.

More people need to get comfortable sitting at 10% hp, because next damaging mechanic is like 40 seconds away. I'll heal when needed.
I only do Savage on BLU and mostly play healer in my BLU statics.
So often times people get really antsy when they see boss starts casting raidwide, and i only start casting aoe heal that will top everyone off like midcast of said raidwide.

[Myrany]

snip

On one side, we have people who think that a healer's primary role is to heal. However, if we want a healer's main thing to be healing, the healing requirements need to go up severely so that healers don't mash their one damage button 60% of the time. More importantly, people need to be willing to put trust in the healer to keep them alive and, as we're continuing to see, many are not. Case in point, all the people complaining about not wanting to be "held hostage" by bad healers not pushing their buttons.

This leads us to the other side of the conversation - the people who don't want the party's survival to be reliant on a healer. The problem here is that if the healer isn't primarily healing, we need to give that player something else to do. The most straightforward answer to this issue is a more complex DPS rotation, essentially turning the current heal dispenser design to something more of a hybrid support. If we don't want to do that, healers need a different gimmick. The argument against this that I see most often is "but bad players" - well, then it needs to be a gimmick that's not essential for Normal content but very helpful in Extreme and up, something that will keep the skill floor low and allow overwhelmed newbies to pull through without properly understanding it but also raises the skill ceiling by allowing for optimization.

Personally, I'd be perfectly OK with either option. I like keeping the party alive, running triage and saving pulls that went horribly wrong. I also enjoyed Astrologian specifically because it gave me something to do besides spamming Fall Malefic and waiting for the scheduled every-30-seconds raidwide. Is there a happy medium to be found? I have no idea, unfortunately. All I know is that I'm unhappy with the current state of both healer jobs and fight designs where healers are heal dispensers with few opportunities to actually do that dispensing.

As a DPS player I used to have absolute trust that healers had my back if things went sideways. I don't really have that faith as much these days. I have run into far too many healers who have the attitude of DPS don't get heals unless they happen to be caught in an area heal. I also have run into many that will not rez a DPS even after a fight no matter what. So I go into dungeons these days being pretty darn careful that I keep my 2nd wind at the ready and a stack of potions too boot. If I die I run back just as I did years ago in WoW. I find it sad how things have changed really.

I still peel mobs off a healer and run them to the tank if its needed. I am a DPS it is what I do. I got the healers back no matter what.

in spite of these personal feelings about the current situation. I will always support someone's right to play what is fun to them. If healing isn't fun don't play it.

[Aword3213]

As a DPS player I used to have absolute trust that healers had my back if things went sideways. I don't really have that faith as much these days. I have run into far too many healers who have the attitude of DPS don't get heals unless they happen to be caught in an area heal. I also have run into many that will not rez a DPS even after a fight no matter what. So I go into dungeons these days being pretty darn careful that I keep my 2nd wind at the ready and a stack of potions too boot. If I die I run back just as I did years ago in WoW. I find it sad how things have changed really.

I think it may be the direct result of lowering bars of entry expansions over expansions.

Healers nowadays are so used to NOT healing. Whenever they make mistakes or perform abysmally bad, there are others that can clean up the mess. RDM and SMN can Raise. Tanks can sustan themselves for a long period of time and use their personal mit to save other teammates. WAR is invincinble. DPS has access to either high potency shields, HP regen, or HP restore.

No to mention healing requirement in casual content is too low to begin with. Damage interval from boss is long and slow. Healers can still get clears even if they completely disregard party's HP bar throughout the fight. Therefore, whenever situation arises, they're not ready to handle it. They don't know how to heal efficiently. They panic heal with Medica II when one dps has bleeding dot at critical HP. The envionment enables the existence of such healers, and I'm afraid there will be more of them in the future. Luckily, our loving Yoshi-p has forsaw it and deemed it neccessay to give DPS more healing tools to compensate in DT.

[TsubameMikage]

If we don't want to do that, healers need a different gimmick. The argument against this that I see most often is "but bad players" - well, then it needs to be a gimmick that's not essential for Normal content but very helpful in Extreme and up, something that will keep the skill floor low and allow overwhelmed newbies to pull through without properly understanding it but also raises the skill ceiling by allowing for optimization.

If it's not essential, then it's not part of the core identity and will be disregarded, and we're back to square 1.

If healers are going to exist as a separate role in the game, then their contribution needs to be meaningful beyond spamming 1 ability. If the DF is mandating that they are present, then they need to bring something to the table that the other two roles simply cannot, and cannot succeed easily without.

[Kes13a]

The argument against this that I see most often is "but bad players" - well, then it needs to be a gimmick that's not essential for Normal content but very helpful in Extreme and up, something that will keep the skill floor low and allow overwhelmed newbies to pull through without properly understanding it but also raises the skill ceiling by allowing for optimization.

my apologies for not noticing this earlier but...

(not singling you out by the way) how can we assume that some who has played through 80 and now 90 levels is going to be an "overwhelmed newbie". I mean, I am all for accessibility etc but at what point do people stop being "new" and actually can be reasonably expect to know how to play? right now SE keeps lowering the skill floor, though its currently a skill sub basement, because the devs seem to treat all current content like it should be accessible to a level 10 understanding player.

beginning to fully understand this is something that the devs have created, and in doing so, the game has been top filled with people that do not know how to play, even at level capped, all in the name of 'accessibility' and a 'low stress' environment. the end result is, any responsibility that healers used to learn in that journey to level cap have been totally negated by poor design where there are no consequences. are players really bad? or have the developers created the bad players?

[PercibelTheren]

my apologies for not noticing this earlier but...

(not singling you out by the way) how can we assume that some who has played through 80 and now 90 levels is going to be an "overwhelmed newbie". I mean, I am all for accessibility etc but at what point do people stop being "new" and actually can be reasonably expect to know how to play? right now SE keeps lowering the skill floor, though its currently a skill sub basement, because the devs seem to treat all current content like it should be accessible to a level 10 understanding player.

I agree with you, believe me. I'm also of the opinion that lvl 90 players should no longer be treated with kid gloves because they have had over a hundred hours to learn their jobs. It's just that I see the argument that we need to ensure casual players can do the MSQ really often. And if Hydaelyn Normal was a problem, then idk anymore.

Pesonally, I'm of the opinion that the game should slowly ramp up in difficulty while offering support for players to improve at their jobs. Not knowing the basics by 80+ is stupid. I don't mind that people want to treat FFXIV as a single player game but, even on easy mode, even most single player RPGs I've encountered required at least some level of competency to get through.