#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Windfire]

[QUOTE=Supersnow845;6489970]I mean the problem is you read an incredibly small amount of the thread (and apparently excluded the actual opening post and the linked post) then just proceeded to generalise from the little you did see

Reading about every ten pages is enough to get a pretty good idea on the main thoughts for a large thread, especially when you take in to consideration that for any game forum the amount of people that use it is very small compared to the actual game population(even fewer that use regularly) then add in the fact that it's often the same few folks posting & reposting in the "mega" threads. I'll often post several times in a single thread myself, though I'm usually just a lurker the times I do get on OF, as far as "dodge queues" goes yeah it happens, have had "healers" in dungeons straight up say "I'm only (insert healer here) because I got tired of the queue for (insert dps here)" it's a case of wanting to have their cake & eat it too (much like certain WAR mains *cough* >.>).

If anyone wants to main dps, they need to reconcile with the fact that they WILL have longer queues, it's been that way since mmos were a thing. I see no way of fixing that beyond something like putting ridiculous amount of dps in the parties, which would not only cause it's own problems but also require a complete rework of all multi-player instances. And using a bit of business savy, we knowthat won't happen because the suits would see a negative cost to benefit (lot of cost, little benefit), heck they won't even give two races headgear and have been chopping parts off two others to "save money" (glares at DT trailer viper gear on Miqo'te).

[ForsakenRoe]

A lot of healers in this forum must not have Glare III, Broil IV, Dosis II, or Maelific III on their hotbar in dungeons and stand around doing nothing.

We do, but A: you only got 2 of those 4 correct as of EW, and B: where we simply press, in AOE for example, Holy 3 ad nauseam, a tank has a 1-2 combo for AOE, which builds resource to spend on a third AOE skill. Some aspects of the ST rotation also carry over, such as how a GNB will be able to use No Mercy, BowShock, Double Down, and even throw in Blasting Zone on a priority target. Coming in DT they'll also be able to Continuation off of Fated Circle, and Lionheart combo will work in AOE too. And that's just GNB. PLD has Confiteor combo and Req will become AOE, WAR has Decimate, IR to allow for 3 in a row, Infuriate upgrades it to Chaotic Cyclone (and gauge spenders reduce the CD on Infuriate). And DRK has it's OGCD 'random BS go' phase that it can throw out, since almost everything it does has AOE functionality.

Then you look at the DPS and they also have more going on for them in AOE. Whether it's NIN's interaction between AOE and Doton via Hollow Nozuchi, BRD getting Rain of Death resets in Mage's (and in DT, Pitch Perfect will be AOE), or BLM having the ever-fun feeling of Flare, Flare, Manafont, Flare (soon to be another Flare here with the DT changes), Ether, Flare again. All the DPS have plenty going on in AOE situations to keep the player engaged. But for a healer, it's just the same one button over and over. AST barely avoids this thanks to the RNG of Cards, soon to become 'another predictable OGCD attack' in DT. SGE attempts (barely) to avoid it with Phlegma, a once-per-40s attack. WHM at least has Misery to play with, and Assize (but it's oGCD so it doesn't really break up the Holy Spam in the same way Aero 3 used to, for example), and SCH doesn't even try, since Energy Drain is single target. And the DT 'improvements' for healer will mean that we press something 'not the usual button' between 1-3 times on the start of the first pull, and then it's business as usual until the boss. Then, after the boss, 1-3 'new' buttons pressed, business as usual.

Meanwhile, I, a mere goober on the internet, with just two additional hotbar buttons (which can be recovered by simply having Cure1 upgrade into Cure2, or Medica1 into Medica2), managed to come up with a way to have FIVE GCD buttons used for our AOE situations as a WHM. Or, from the 1 Art of War spam button we use as SCH for AOE, to 4 GCDs, plus the OGCD Bane to spread the DOTs. What's SE's excuse? Evidently, it's not a case of 'they don't have the creativity', it's 'they deliberately choose to have the role be the way it is'. And I'm not the only goober who's goob'd ideas on the forums, people have been posting ideas about how to improve healers in the healer feedback section of the forums for five years now, and yet despite all the feedback which SE surely listens to, we get 'Jesus on the cross, with his crown of thorns' mode as SCH. What feedback spawned that abomination?

edit: What I'm trying to get at is, if the tanks are going to selfheal themselves in dungeons to the extent that we just 'spam Holy/AOW/Dyskrasia/Gravity' because we don't need to heal, it'd be nice if it was more than just 'spam Holy/AOW/Dyskrasia/Gravity'. Like, for a SCH example, how about 'Put up Biolysis, Miasmalysis, spread them with Bane, drop a Shadowflare on the enemy, and then spam Art of War until you need to refresh something'?

[Supersnow845]

You must've missed the part where I said what needs to be fixed is raid design/dungeon design. Healers are fine where they are at. It's simply put that Raids are extremely easy and don't push ANY of the classes to their limits. Also normal raids are easy enough to were you can push yourself in knowing how much you can push as a dps. A few people die in normal while experimenting so what. Raise them and continue, you know what you need to work on. Self improvement. Sadly can't do that cause most mechanics are either body checks or do too little damage. As I said Raid design is the problem.

They can raid design themselves out the wazoo it still doesn’t change the boring and annoying truth that your reward for optimising your damage is broil spam

Let’s say that abyssos bleedwides were actually constant and they were the healers job, it doesn’t change the fact that healer problems extend to their DPS rotation and how overbloated their kits are

Raid design isn’t the only problem

[OliviaLugria]

Based on reactions on reddit, Youtube, discord etc. the only thing this thread has accomplished is making content for content creators and r/shitpostxiv.

Mostly because it was based on no-healer dungeon clear and posted by someone that does not do savage it was already ruled out as "casual weirdos on forums crying about nothing again".

Unless big influencers come out and plainly state the issues this won't change.

But there are not many of them that main healers and fully share the opinion, f. e. in recent MogTalk episode about state of healers I believe Momo said he likes the current state of healers. Rinon has no strong opinion either way and the healer from world race static Kindred dislikes healing because he was dps main before or smth.

And we saw what Xeno, MrHappy etc. has said about the whole thing

I don't really understand your point... a huge problem healers we're facing was feeling unheard. It's not like the craziest thing, but content creators, news outlets, and this fourm are keeping the conversation going. I feel more heard than ever. This seems like a huge success already.

As for content creators, no one would outright support a strike against the game that pays them, but Zepla, Cole, and even Xeno took our concerns seriously and agreed with some points and disagreed about others. That's a hard-core raider, mid-core player, and a healer agreeing even if they don't think the method is correct.

Not saying they did a perfect job, but they're not going through 300 pages of content during a stream and we can do a better job at expressing our points.

[Supersnow845]

I don't really understand your point... a huge problem healers we're facing was feeling unheard. It's not like the craziest thing, but content creators, news outlets, and this fourm are keeping the conversation going. I feel more heard than ever. This seems like a huge success already.

As for content creators, no one would outright support a strike against the game that pays them, but Zepla, Cole, and even Xeno took our concerns seriously and agreed with some points and disagreed about others. That's a hard-core raider, mid-core player, and a healer agreeing even if they don't think the method is correct.

Not saying they did a perfect job, but they're not going through 300 pages of content during a stream and we can do a better job at expressing our points.

Exactly, the biggest blowback we have gotten from the creators and from their channels is the idea that our method of “strike” is stupid: which fair enough it kinda is. But that was never the intention of the strike. Making the idea behind the complaints a “strike” has broken the containment our problems have being stuck on the healer forum. We are sick of soapboxing on the healer forum to each other while nobody listens to us

This has generated more healer discussion than we have gotten since probably when they completely changed the healers in ShB. If you take out the “the strike is stupid” and ask people “okay but are you happy with healers” people tend to lean towards no. This is getting people talking and it’s honestly spread faster than I ever expected it to, they can meme our methods if they want

[MagiusNecros]

Streamers: This Healer Strike is the worst thing I've ever heard of.

Healerstrike: But you have heard of me. *smug*

[aiqa]

Part of the problem here is there are 2 sides of the strike, those who want to heal more and those who want more dps options, both sides feel that both can't be true when it should be both and not one side or the other.

I think it's completely doable to greatly improve both, they aren't mutually exclusive. There is some disagreement oh how damage buttons should look. But most healers seem to agree that tank role taking over more of the healing responsibilities isn't good.

My own favorite healer WHM will have 4 damage buttons for single target in DT. WHich should be enough to remove the feeling of using only Glare. People who don't want complex rotations already have to deal with those 4 buttons, but the buttons are implemented in a way that gives very little variation. For some reason the FF devs decided to make a system where Dia is only needed once every 30 seconds, Missery every 1 minute at most, and the new DT damage buttons every 2 minutes (3 times). So in between those huge cooldowns and DoT duration, you're just back to Glare spam.

That can be improved, without adding damage rotations that come near dps jobs, and even without adding a single damage button. And it can even make the "rotation" easier to do if they add some rhythm to it. The 30s Dia duration is far to long for me to get into a rhythm, I need to keep track of the status timer to use it at the perfect time. The basic PLD GCD damage rotation uses 5 buttons, but the rotation is easier to do by muscle memory then glare+dia.

And the other "side" of strike focusses mostly on not wanting to feel like a weaker dps job, for neither large parts of savage/ultimate fights and all the time in easier content when teaming up with WAR/PLD. That complaint isn't directly opposed to any reasonable change to damage buttons. That just means tanks HPS should never overshadow HPS from healers, and ogcd HPS from tanks shouldn't be enough to filfull the healing requirements in any team content. And add a few more big AoE hits from bosses, scaling up more for higher difficulty content. From my experience it's pretty rare to see a healer so far into the dps-healer camp that they disagree with this point.

[WaxSw]

Streamers whose income depends on SE or the heavily defensive XIV community refuse to do stuff that would piss off SE or the XIV community and put their income at risk. (But hey despite many of them not touching healers their opinion is that of the majority and not the hundreds here)

More news at 9

[ForsakenRoe]

My own favorite healer WHM will have 4 damage damage buttoms for single target in DT. WHich should be enough to remove the feeling of using only Glare. People who don't want complex rotations already have to deal with those 4 buttons, but the buttons are implemented in a way that gives very little variation. For some reason the FF devs decided to give make a system where Dia is only needed once every 30 seconds, Missery every 1 minute at most, and the new DT damage buttons every 2 minutes (3 times). So in between those huge cooldowns and DoT duration, you're just back to Glare spam.

This is the problem with the adjustments, the way they're being implemented. As it stands, assuming you're playing into raidbuffs as a WHM, you'll have, per 2 minutes:

36 Glares
4 Dia
6 Lily heals
2 Miseries

It's alarmingly close to the '155 taters' meme. In DT this will be adjusted thanks to Glare 4's introduction to be:

33 Glares
4 Dias
6 Lily Heals
2 Miseries
3 Glare 4's (new)

Almost nothing has changed. We're still using an overwhelming amount of Glare, the filler spell. What if, then, we do some simple adjustments, making Dia more 'bursty' by making it shorter in duration and adjusting it's potency, and making this Glare 4 be useable more often, by unlinking it from Presence of Mind? If we say Dia is 12s duration, and Glare 4 is useable once per 15s, we get:

22 Glares
10 Dias
8 Glare 4's
6 Lily Heals
2 Miseries

Way better ratio of Glare to not-Glare, less than half (barely) of the GCDs used would be Glare, compared to our current gameplay where 75% of our GCDs are Glare.

That can be improved, without adding damage rotations that come near dps jobs, and even without adding a single damage button. And it can even make the "rotation" easier to do if they add some rhythm to it. The 30s Dia duration is far to long for me to get in a rhythm, I need to keep track of the status timer to use it at the perfect time.

Same with DOT tracking. 30s is just too long to remember for some scatterbrains like me. I never had this kind of problem when I had a 24s and 18s duration on 2 DOTs in SB, or the 18/12 of HW WHM. SE thinks that by making the DOTs require refreshing less often they're being helpful, but for some players (like me) it's actually having the opposite effect. Additionally, to the first part of the quote (without adding a single damage button), very true, as has been demonstrated over in the healer forums several times. But, if we mean 'without adding an additional keybind', that is, we add new 'damage buttons' but consolidate some of the crap we've accumulated over the years to recover some of that hotbar real-estate, then we have even more space to work with. As an example, I posted an idea for WHM which, yes, adds four buttons (Water/Banish, Blessing of the Elementals, Afflatus Bastion, Afflatus Sanctuary), but also removes two (Cure1 upgrades into Cure2, Medica1 upgrades into Medica2), leaving it at +2 overall (without the shielding Lily spenders, it'd be at +0 overall).

But another key aspect I wanted to include in the idea was to add back a lot of 'lower level versions' of skills, to populate the hotbars sooner in levelling for more access to fun actions. For example, we get Temperance at 80. Why not have the 'healing increased' portion available via Divine Seal again, down at level 35-40ish? Why not bring back Protect, as a raid-wide mit tool, and have it upgrade into (and add its effect to) Plenary Indulgence, so WHM has a 60s mit tool? Why not have a lower level of Misery, available earlier in levelling (I put it at 60), to get players into using Lilies as the 'first response' for healing? In fact, why on earth do Lilies unlock at 52, when we could have actions at 30-50 that teach players about the system (eg Stoneskin)? SE's levelling structure for healers is stale to play through the story (due to the lack of damage button variety you get to press) but it is also super empty for so long, because so much of our kit is backloaded in the levelling process. Having more buttons available earlier would help a lot for levelling, and even when max we'd still be able to use those buttons when we get a roulette and get synced down. As an example, say I get a level 60 dungeon in the Number Roulette (because I want the tomes for relics). In this idea, I'd have Protect, Divine Seal, Afflatus Tragedy (lower level version of Misery), Afflatus Solace, Stoneskin/Graniteskin (shielding Lily spenders), a whole new gauge to play with, the gauge spender which enables 3 additional ST/AOE damage actions, etc. Much more engaging gameplay for Neverreap/Antitower/etc, compared to current gameplay (in my opinion, I might be biased though)

[Evergrey]

Streamers: This Healer Strike is the worst thing I've ever heard of.

Healerstrike: But you have heard of me. *smug*

"All publicity is good publicity."