#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[ty_taurus]

I'm not going to read through almost 400 pages but the bits I've read here & there just looks like people wanting to dps with healer privileges i.e short queues, if you want to dps make one and deal with the longer queue like everyone else. As someone who generally likes healing, I DON'T want more dps buttons I want to-you know, ACUTALLY HEAL, whether that means making damage go out more often or things hit harder or some combination of the two, I really don't care. As for cleansing debuffs, I would actually be ok with then not adding more because of how many times I and others die through no fault of our own because the "I'm a green dps" can't be bothered to esuna cleansable doom (or heal to full), on that note they should go back and just make doom some baseline rather then "step on this/esuna OR heal to full, it's annoying that it has three different criteria.

I could do without the attitude. The lack of basic human decency when trying to enter into another groups space continues to blow my fing mind every single time. Drink a glass of water, go back out the door, then come back in with a better attitude before you respond, please.

Respectfully, as someone who likes healers that are also offensive, allow me to explain why I like the play style I like. I do not care about queue times or trying to cut the line while secretly being a DPS. I like the fantasy of characters that are capable of both combat and medicine at the same time. I like the gameplay aspect of having to dance between the two and make decisions based on the needs of my team. These are things that bring me joy in video games. And believe me, I am VERY aware of when you have a cleanse-able debuff that needs to be removed. When running something like Fell Court, I watch many times as a DPS while the countdown on the other DPS or the tank hits 0 while the healer does nothing. To be fair, I find this a failure on the UI, not necessarily the player. I would kindly ask that you be respectful of other players' preferred play styles. You don't have to like the same play style.

What I've been parroting over and over is that while I want to see Sage become the hyper aggressive healer fantasy that it was sold as, I don't want that for every healer. I think every healer should have at least a little more than Glare spam, because at the end of the day you do have solo content, FATEs, deep dungeons and the like, and also it actually helps players like you worry less about DPS uptime because loading your potency into a few different burst buttons or DoTs allows the job to maintain its potency per minute each expansion without having to increase the potency of your standard filler spells. How this helps is by avoiding the problem of power creep that spells like Glare and Broil create. Because every expansion, when these spells get stronger, so does the importance of casting them as much as is possible. Consider that ARR Scholar's Ruin spell had a potency of 80. Broil IV's about to have a potency of 310. Every single cast of Broil IV is almost 4 times as important as each individual cast of Ruin was, meaning it's almost 4 times as damaging to your performance whenever you stop casting Broil IV to heal or even just to maneuver around mechanics. So having at least a few more options is actually very helpful to players who don't want to DPS all the time, because it allows them to dump more of their potency into fewer casts, making your DPS contributions easier to achieve.

Ultimately, I would like to see all four healers adopt different play styles both in regards to healing and damage. I would like Sage to be aggressive for someone like me, but I also want there to be a more simple healer for players like you. Now, if you would like to continue the conversation cordially, we can do so without attacking each other at the throat. If you have no intention of being respectful and feel the need to look down on someone like me, then please refrain from continuing the conversation because it will be a waste of your time and mine. Have a good night.

[Windfire]

I wasn't being aggressive, (honestly reread my post in Ben Stein's voice lol) I was simply stating what I observed on the posts I read, and yes sage WAS touted as a "do damage to heal". I have no comment on if that's true or not as I don't play it, the little I tried I instantly didn't like, might be partly due to not doing well with jobs that don't start at 1 (other then rdm that clicked with me pretty quick) so it will be one I level like other jobs I don't like/hate-pvp & switch in FL to what I do like.

[Supersnow845]

I wasn't being aggressive, (honestly reread my post in Ben Stein's voice lol) I was simply stating what I observed on the posts I read, and yes sage WAS touted as a "do damage to heal". I have no comment on if that's true or not as I don't play it, the little I tried I instantly didn't like, might be partly due to not doing well with jobs that don't start at 1 (other then rdm that clicked with me pretty quick) so it will be one I level like other jobs I don't like/hate-pvp & switch in FL to what I do like.

I mean the problem is you read an incredibly small amount of the thread (and apparently excluded the actual opening post and the linked post) then just proceeded to generalise from the little you did see

It’s fine if you want to come in and say “i personally don’t really like the idea of more complex DPS options because I think the barebones kits and the low damage aren’t enough engagement” because hell we agree with you, it’s the “yall green DPS mains aren’t actually healers and just infiltrate the healer role to dodge queues” holier than thou attitude that’s the problem

[BunnyQueen]

I mean the problem is you read an incredibly small amount of the thread (and apparently excluded the actual opening post and the linked post) then just proceeded to generalise from the little you did see

It’s fine if you want to come in and say “i personally don’t really like the idea of more complex DPS options because I think the barebones kits and the low damage aren’t enough engagement” because hell we agree with you, it’s the “yall green DPS mains aren’t actually healers and just infiltrate the healer role to dodge queues” holier than thou attitude that’s the problem

Part of the problem here is there are 2 sides of the strike, those who want to heal more and those who want more dps options, both sides feel that both can't be true when it should be both and not one side or the other.

[Somnolence]

I mean the problem is you read an incredibly small amount of the thread (and apparently excluded the actual opening post and the linked post) then just proceeded to generalise from the little you did see

Based on reactions on reddit, Youtube, discord etc. the only thing this thread has accomplished is making content for content creators and r/shitpostxiv.

Mostly because it was based on no-healer dungeon clear and posted by someone that does not do savage it was already ruled out as "casual weirdos on forums crying about nothing again".

Unless big influencers come out and plainly state the issues this won't change.

But there are not many of them that main healers and fully share the opinion, f. e. in recent MogTalk episode about state of healers I believe Momo said he likes the current state of healers. Rinon has no strong opinion either way and the healer from world race static Kindred dislikes healing because he was dps main before or smth.

And we saw what Xeno, MrHappy etc. has said about the whole thing

[Windfire]

[QUOTE=Supersnow845;6489970]I mean the problem is you read an incredibly small amount of the thread (and apparently excluded the actual opening post and the linked post) then just proceeded to generalise from the little you did see

Reading about every ten pages is enough to get a pretty good idea on the main thoughts for a large thread, especially when you take in to consideration that for any game forum the amount of people that use it is very small compared to the actual game population(even fewer that use regularly) then add in the fact that it's often the same few folks posting & reposting in the "mega" threads. I'll often post several times in a single thread myself, though I'm usually just a lurker the times I do get on OF, as far as "dodge queues" goes yeah it happens, have had "healers" in dungeons straight up say "I'm only (insert healer here) because I got tired of the queue for (insert dps here)" it's a case of wanting to have their cake & eat it too (much like certain WAR mains *cough* >.>).

If anyone wants to main dps, they need to reconcile with the fact that they WILL have longer queues, it's been that way since mmos were a thing. I see no way of fixing that beyond something like putting ridiculous amount of dps in the parties, which would not only cause it's own problems but also require a complete rework of all multi-player instances. And using a bit of business savy, we knowthat won't happen because the suits would see a negative cost to benefit (lot of cost, little benefit), heck they won't even give two races headgear and have been chopping parts off two others to "save money" (glares at DT trailer viper gear on Miqo'te).

[Eorzean_username]

You have a thread with only 331 likes at this time from a game that has millions of customers/accounts, just saying.

Stats isn't my career, but isn't it mathematically-disingenuous to compare Forum Likes to total registered Accounts, rather than comparing Likes on one Thread to the average Likes of other Threads, including Threads that can be considered "popular", and then trying to extrapolate population data from there?

Notwithstanding issues that you're not factoring-in. I mean questions like:

• "If someone agrees with the complaints, is that person willing to actually register for the Forums just to Like a Thread? Many people are more passive than that."
• "If someone agrees with the complaints, but has already Unsubscribed in the past, and therefore doesn't have Forum access, does that mean their agreement shouldn't be considered in future design decisions? Remember that SE is a business first and foremost. If they can gain some indication of why some portion of paying customers stopped paying, then they would probably want to know that."
• "Is the common Internet phenomenon of a small number of people antagonistically-brigading discussion locations for issues that they feel provoked-by at play here? Can we determine, in any meaningful way, how much 'hostility' here is reflective of the wider playerbase? And do we know if that hostility is due to an actual understanding of the issues being discussed and protested-over, or simply due to whatever distorted narratives are being spread by those who feel threatened by the discussion, or that simply want to mock something just to mock it?"

I don't think it's as simple a formula as:
331 / [Total Number of Registered Accounts] = % of Support

If it were, I don't think that a single statement posted to any FFXIV social media, anywhere, would ever have been acted upon, but we have large amounts of evidence contradicting that idea.

I kinda feel like if they had just given every healer a new DoT that wasn't locked behind a 2 minute cooldown we never would have gotten this thread. Maybe make it an AoE for WHM and AST but give SCH another single target and Bane. People would've at least had something to be happy about.

To a degree, you may be correct.

I think that the "I just want to Heal" side of Healers would still have been provoked by seeing that nothing was changed about Non-Healer Sustain, nothing seems meaningfully-changed about content Healing pressure, and there was no promising sign that Healer would actually be using Healing buttons actively and regularly, rather than just spamming Glare and OGCDs for another 2.5 years.

However, CBU3 might have successfully "divided and conquered" the Media Tour feedback by shaving-off support from more aggressive Healers who would consider extra, rotationally-regular Damage additions to be "listening", and willing to wait and see what would come next.

To be a bit melodramatic in the phrasing, I would say that CBU3's "fatal mistake" here was probably that the 7.0 previews managed to simultaneously disappoint and make-feel unheard both sides of the Healer spectrum simultaneously, causing many of the more invested Healers to stop fighting each other over their preferred Healing design direction, and instead unite-together in a single voice of dissatisfaction over, just... (gestures all over) everything.

I could do without the attitude. The lack of basic human decency when trying to enter into another groups space continues to blow my fing mind every single time. Drink a glass of water, go back out the door, then come back in with a better attitude before you respond, please.

I understand the frustration, but at the same time, this is, effectively, a semi-public space where every thread is open to everyone with a subscription. If someone wants to flounce in here and be a belligerent knob, it's entirely within their rights (up to a certain limit based on wherever the phantom moderators draw their lines).

It's just, that also means that it's within everyone else's rights to push right back on that behaviour... insofar as anyone has "rights" when milling-around on a company's technically-private property.

Most of the pages are genuine nonsense and bickering, quantity does not equal quality and it's pretty evident in this thread.

Also Thank you, im quite enjoying my time with healer and I will be leveling one alongside a dps class come DT.

First of all, not really, if you actually read through most of the Posts instead of making sensational appeals, it's mostly just people actually talking about Healing, often in ways that might even be considered dry and technical.

Second of all, when it does devolve, it's usually because random people decide to show up and contribute something pointless and non-constructive which nudges the thread off-course, such as:

Most of the pages are genuine nonsense and bickering, quantity does not equal quality and it's pretty evident in this thread.

Also Thank you, im quite enjoying my time with healer and I will be leveling one alongside a dps class come DT.

[WaxSw]

I'm not going to read through almost 400 pages but the bits I've read here & there just looks like people wanting to dps with healer privileges i.e short queues.

We don't want to be dps, we want to have something to do when the healing is solved and truly unique healing kits.
It's as simple as that, our gameplay shoudn't devolve into pressing one button over and over for over 70% of the gcds (50%+ of the total actions) the moment you read your tooltips and slightly understand them, at any difficulty

[GartredZW]

When I got to level 50 for the first time back in 6.0, I decided to try out some healing. It was really fun in World of Warcraft, and I wanted to see how it worked in this game. After getting Scholar to level 50, I was hooked. It felt like I was deftly keeping the party alive by strategically planning out my resources when they're needed. I somehow managed to find a group for the Bahamut raid series, and did all 13 turns as Scholar. That was one of my favorite moments in gaming, and I stayed a Scholar main up until a few months ago.
In the next 40 levels, I did a few extreme trials. Less over time as I got more hooked into the story and didn't want to pause to "take in the endgame" of an expansion as much. I didn't notice it at the time, but something was shifting. I was a bit late in finishing the endwalker savage raids, but still eager to get some good endgame healing done. What I found was more disappointing than anything. Unlike the ARR raids, these ones are much more scripted. auto - auto - auto - raidwide - mechanic. That kind of thing. I started just knowing where to put heals through rote memorization rather than reactive adaptation. Also, it was just a lot easier to keep the Broils rolling. Throw out an excog on the tank a while before the buster, then find that it didn't even do half damage. weave a Lustrate, then try for a Succor only to find everyone at full before the cast finished. And to make it all the worse, the damaging rotation stayed the exact same all throughout. Once I got about half way through P9S progression, I found a group that wasn't accepting a Scholar, so I joined as Black Mage, and had a whole new level of fun that I forgot I could have with Savage Raiding.
(these events are abridged obviously, I did about half of the pandaemonium raids as current content.)

I really want healing to be fun again like it was in those early levels, but we just can't have that with the fights designed the way they are now, Tanks having the self-sustain they do now, and healer kits being so oGCD heavy.
changing any of these could have vast positive and negative consequences, and should only be done very carefully. In no small part because of all the old fights that must still be clearable by any party comp in every expansion in the future. What I'd suggest is to just bubblewrap the issue for now by giving healers just a bit more to do for a damaging rotation so it's not so painfully obvious that we're just doing nothing but smacking one button most of the time.
Even the most braindead easy tank has about nine single target damage buttons, and a similar amount of mitigation (yeah, I think new Paladin is easier than Warrior. I'm still salty they ruined my tank main in 6.3)
Why couldn't a similar thing happen with healers? Have a decent damage rotation (that doesn't require tight timing as to not distract from the healing) and a few good heals that fit the class fantasy.