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  1. #1
    Player
    Supersnow845's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    6,952
    Character
    Andreas Cestelle
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    What I don’t understand and what I’ve never understood about post ShB healer design is they seem to have no driving philosophy behind it as they contradict their own design and their own decisions they apply to the other roles

    Looking at an example- tanks moving into EW and DT got buffed defensives and consolidated rotations that fix most of their ceiling/floor issues (for example PLD lost its spreadsheet mode that made you do weird things like -15 second FOF and lionheart will severely reduce how often you need to do weird things like AOE on one target to get a cartridge before downtime). DPS meanwhile got changes that basically enforce particular play designs (BLM non standard is dead, enchanted reprise may as well not even be a button anymore, life’s built in drift is pretty much gone etc) so their guiding principle seems to be accessibility and static rotations.

    However healers seem to stand in opposition to this. The more oGCD’s they add the higher the gap between the floor and the ceiling becomes because DF has shown that ultra casuals simply do not understand why oGCD’s are so powerful. They also continue to make oGCD’s on the healer front oblique and difficult to understand for non healer mains. Using an example of seraphism, anyone who is a decently knowledgeable SCH main read seraphism’s tooltip and basically went “oh so it’s a replacement spreadlo amplifier to free up dissipation with a regen attached” but if you have no idea what SCH’s strengths are you’ll probably read it as “WHM mode”. The healer tooltips are terribly designed, obfuscate their intended use and are hostile to new players. Then while the profess accessibility and design the tanks to be fail states for the healers they still basically enforce full uptime and minimal GCD useage to even come close to clearing most high end content and don’t provide them many useful tools to actually work with this system. In modern 14 SCH is arguably the most immobile class in the game as it has ZERO movement tools that are DPS neutral.

    So the classes don’t really “help” anyone because experienced players who are sick of the 111111111 can cut through the bullshit and realise these changes change nothing but inexperienced people are stuck at the mercy of messy tooltips and high skill floors for entry to anything higher than alliance raids where the WAR can’t carry them. This in turn fosters a seriously two tiered healer design where you are either a cure 1 spammer because the game never asks anything of you; in which case a skill like divine caress doesn’t make any sense as to what it brings to your kit, or you are a semi competent healer who understands that but is sick of having nothing to do

    The role has no flow and no progression which makes it extremely hostile to near everyone
    (25)
    As a healer main in this game for nigh on 14 years all I can say is that I’m tired. My role has been eroded of complexity and expression for 3 expansions. I’ve watched the tanks do my role for me for 2 expansions and my feedback and critiques continue to fall on deaf ears.

    I have no idea who modern healers are designed for but I know now it’s not me. This is the first expansion I’m truly considering dropping the healer role and not returning, so if that was the goal- congratulations I guess

  2. #2
    Player Kathryn's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    546
    Character
    Nanapie Kimura
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 28
    Eh, I tried SGE for the first time recently and I have quite enjoyed it, eh in this case I might just stick with it if peoples are quitting.
    (4)

  3. #3
    Player
    Rehayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Posts
    754
    Character
    Yasu Naoya
    World
    Malboro
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathryn View Post
    Eh, I tried SGE for the first time recently and I have quite enjoyed it, eh in this case I might just stick with it if peoples are quitting.
    Yes because spamming 111111211111 is such a riveting gameplay and experience on all the healers
    (14)

  4. #4
    Player Kathryn's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    546
    Character
    Nanapie Kimura
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 28
    Quote Originally Posted by Rehayem View Post
    Yes because spamming 111111211111 is such a riveting gameplay and experience on all the healers
    There's not much real difference between pressing 1121 and by pressing 1234, if you believe there is there's something psychologically wrong with you, all classes are in the same boat and if you find this boring you'll find tanking and dps boring aswell...
    (6)

  5. #5
    Player
    Merrigan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Posts
    560
    Character
    Merrigan Gilgard
    World
    Spriggan
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathryn View Post
    There's not much real difference between pressing 1121 and by pressing 1234, if you believe there is there's something psychologically wrong with you, all classes are in the same boat and if you find this boring you'll find tanking and dps boring aswell...
    Although there's definitely always been this aspect on mmorpg forums, the healers really need to be reworked. And no, the ‘other classes are affected too’ argument isn't an argument (especially as it's a lie for a lot of jobs).

    The fact that 90% of the time spent as a healer consists of spamming a key (litteraly), that in most of the content you spend your time wishing people were bad, and that there's a very clear curve that consists of getting bored as soon as you dare to master one of the classes (Scholar would tend to escape this rule a bit more?) should be good indicators.
    (26)

  6. #6
    Player
    Loggos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    1,028
    Character
    Kaeya Alberich
    World
    Twintania
    Main Class
    Pictomancer Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathryn View Post
    There's not much real difference between pressing 1121 and by pressing 1234, if you believe there is there's something psychologically wrong with you, all classes are in the same boat and if you find this boring you'll find tanking and dps boring aswell...
    There is a difference in planning, remembering and executing your rotation while doing mechanics.

    On NIN I do my first mudra, activate my buffs, do various mudras that demand quick execution and certain conditions (don't move during Ten Chi Jin, no weapon skills before Raiju --> can't just randomly smash buttons) while weaving in OCDs to squeeze them all into my buff window while potentially having to dodge mechs (risk of running out of the enemy's range, losing time in my buff window --> awareness of rotation and environment at the same time), then keeping an eye on my buff CD (and some attack skill CDs to see whether they align or I missed my timing during my first burst window) for my mini burst while attacking and preparing my mudra that's a buff prerequisite, executing my mini burst window as detailed above albeit with a bit fewer skills, then keeping an eye on my buff/skill CDs for the big burst so I can execute it on time, all while keeping an eye on my huton (though this is becoming obsolete soon).

    On BLM I .....ok I'm too lazy to type all that out.

    And that is just my unoptimised casual game play.

    On AST I press 1.
    And every 30 seconds I press 2.
    (9)
    Last edited by Loggos; 06-14-2024 at 05:01 AM.

  7. #7
    Player
    KageTokage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    7,093
    Character
    Alijana Tumet
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Ninja Lv 100
    SGE is lucky and gets to hit 3 every 45 seconds too.

    It's kind of sad that Psyche on a one minute cooldown and Eukrasian Dykrasia being applied once every 30 seconds (When positioning makes it practical) somehow managed to be considerably more meaningful then what the other healers got.
    (9)

  8. #8
    Player
    Supersnow845's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    6,952
    Character
    Andreas Cestelle
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    E dyskrasia being 30 seconds and phyche being an oGCD basically neutered any enjoyment from the improvements in SGE

    Now you’ll just dump e dyskrasia after e dosis and press psyche on CD

    Ironically SGE is going to be the one suffering the most from even further consolidation around the burst window. SCH seems poised to dominate in damage again
    (5)
    As a healer main in this game for nigh on 14 years all I can say is that I’m tired. My role has been eroded of complexity and expression for 3 expansions. I’ve watched the tanks do my role for me for 2 expansions and my feedback and critiques continue to fall on deaf ears.

    I have no idea who modern healers are designed for but I know now it’s not me. This is the first expansion I’m truly considering dropping the healer role and not returning, so if that was the goal- congratulations I guess

  9. #9
    Player
    Xlantaa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    1,000
    Character
    X'lantaa Lizhashen
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 90
    Oh, look. 10 less healers in the DF, what a massive strike.

    When I though this forum cannot go even lower...
    (16)

  10. #10
    Player Kathryn's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    546
    Character
    Nanapie Kimura
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 28
    Quote Originally Posted by Xlantaa View Post
    Oh, look. 10 less healers in the DF, what a massive strike.

    When I though this forum cannot go even lower...
    Right?! everything gets stale with time, this is just sad, these people hve just grown bored of the game but they're so addicted they feel they need to "go on strike" its hilarious.
    (7)

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