#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Varipanda]

B) is the system that wow goes with for healers and its absolutely awful . it turns you into less of a reactive healer and more of HPS just following a rotation to get maximum healing output at all time . which granted makes for some decent healing mechanics but really makes you just a dps where health go up instead of down.
C) only really works if you give tanks back some sort of other mechanic because again you are reducing the class to a DPS . Vampiric tanks have always been a thing in MMO's otherwise there is very little you can actually do with the mit system.as a WAR , yes we could probably go with a nerf on blood-whetting and survive but PLD needs to really screw up their rotation to get any real use out of clemency and both really lose a lot of their usefulness outside of casual content

[Absurdity]

B) is the system that wow goes with for healers and its absolutely awful . it turns you into less of a reactive healer and more of HPS just following a rotation to get maximum healing output at all time . which granted makes for some decent healing mechanics but really makes you just a dps where health go up instead of down.
C) only really works if you give tanks back some sort of other mechanic because again you are reducing the class to a DPS . Vampiric tanks have always been a thing in MMO's otherwise there is very little you can actually do with the mit system.as a WAR , yes we could probably go with a nerf on blood-whetting and survive but PLD needs to really screw up their rotation to get any real use out of clemency and both really lose a lot of their usefulness outside of casual content

Nobody is talking about Clemency, that actually requires you to trade damage for it's healing.
Paladin gets a free 1000 cure potency over 12 seconds roughly every 30 seconds, free 1600 cure potency every 60 seconds during it's Req phase and another free 400 cure potency roughly every 15 seconds.

And vampiric tanks in other MMO's usually either require precise timing, certain conditions or a tradeoff. Blood Death Knight for example heals for 25% of the damage taken within the last 5 seconds with Death Strike and it costs you class resource, so you can't just use it whenever.

Warrior had a restriction like that in Shadowbringers, Nascent Flash healed you for 50% of the damage you dealt during it's duration, making your healing output dependent on your damage output. In Endwalker it doesn't, making the healing from Bloodwhetting a completely free 1600 cure potency every 25 seconds, as long as you can rub two brain cells together to press any weaponskill.

[WeakestZenosEnjoyer]

I've even had warriors with blood-whetting go from 100%-0% in the space of a couple of malifics while I scream at my screen for them to just press any button due to just not using any of their buttons on w2w's ( or a few where ive blown all CD's trying to keep them up and ive had to resort to benefic spam and then getting yelled at for not healing enough)

So here's the thing, this is a consequence of how easy casual content is. You usually can just carry a near mitless tank (Raw Intuition alone was probably actually enough for the last however many levels) which leads directly to tanks never learning how to mit.

As you've seen, this attitude is deeply toxic but it also hasn't been prevented even with the extremely low bar, we paradoxically need to raise the bar so it's clear that not mitigating isn't going to work.

[Varipanda]

As a beginner healer I think the leveling dungeon difficulty is actually perfect and I think any more difficulty in dungeons might turn off people who aren't particularly confident in the role.
This may just be a self call out of how bad a healer I am but I think this game should not just be for those who are experienced and I am aware im not some giga healer but in the same vein I have played every class , and i have done a few savages while current so I have the game basics down.
I have just finished levelling Astro through Shb and EW leveling dungeons and I let the tank drop a fair bit due to being a bit new and trying to balance the card and dps buttons with the heals.The Idea of tanks being nigh unkillable only really applies to 'good' tanks. over the past 2 weeks I've even had warriors with blood-whetting go from 100%-0% in the space of a couple of malifics while I scream at my screen for them to just press any button due to just not using any of their buttons on w2w's ( or a few where ive blown all CD's trying to keep them up and ive had to resort to benefic spam and then getting yelled at for not healing enough). with the difficulty of dungeons being firmly in the realm of casual content i think a good tank should be able to do it without a healer , just like a good healer should be able to keep a party up without a tank and there isnt really a problem there.

I haven't healed a savage but my wife was our healer and it looked pretty stressful( way more than warrior anyways) and as far as im aware the drama that kicked this off was Xeems cleared a leveling dungeon with no healer .

Im really not sure what the drama is about .
is it specifically about talented healers not being engaged enough in levelling dungeons ?
not enough dps options ?
community opinion of healers ?

[Ramiee]

As a beginner healer I think the leveling dungeon difficulty is actually perfect and I think any more difficulty in dungeons might turn off people who aren't particularly confident in the role.
This may just be a self call out of how bad a healer I am but I think this game should not just be for those who are experienced and I am aware im not some giga healer but in the same vein I have played every class , and i have done a few savages while current so I have the game basics down.
I have just finished levelling Astro through Shb and EW leveling dungeons and I let the tank drop a fair bit due to being a bit new and trying to balance the card and dps buttons with the heals.The Idea of tanks being nigh unkillable only really applies to 'good' tanks. over the past 2 weeks I've even had warriors with blood-whetting go from 100%-0% in the space of a couple of malifics while I scream at my screen for them to just press any button due to just not using any of their buttons on w2w's ( or a few where ive blown all CD's trying to keep them up and ive had to resort to benefic spam and then getting yelled at for not healing enough). with the difficulty of dungeons being firmly in the realm of casual content i think a good tank should be able to do it without a healer , just like a good healer should be able to keep a party up without a tank and there isnt really a problem there.

I haven't healed a savage but my wife was our healer and it looked pretty stressful( way more than warrior anyways) and as far as im aware the drama that kicked this off was Xeems cleared a leveling dungeon with no healer .

Im really not sure what the drama is about .
is it specifically about talented healers not being engaged enough in levelling dungeons ?
not enough dps options ?
community opinion of healers ?

You'll never get good as a healer if you aren't pushed at all and so far the game hasn't pushed you at all. We aren't saying levelling dungeons need to be savage raids but they do need to be incredibly hard to do without a healer ideally impossible because theyre redundant if they aren't necessary, its just a weak dps. This is a trinty MMO all jobs should be required for current content if you don't want that play a different MMO.

[Evergrey]

You'll never get good as a healer if you aren't pushed at all and so far the game hasn't pushed you at all. We aren't saying levelling dungeons need to be savage raids but they do need to be incredibly hard to do without a healer ideally impossible because theyre redundant if they aren't necessary, its just a weak dps. This is a trinty MMO all jobs should be required for current content if you don't want that play a different MMO.

That's the thing tho, when something's been pushing players, they have said that it's too difficult so SE has made it easier.
Not just specific to a job, but in general as well.
Dungeons has been nerfed, missions has been nerfed.
Fights in general have almost everything marked out so you don't miss anything.
We even have system in place during some missions that if you fail you can retry it but can select an easier mode.

[Ramiee]

That's the thing tho, when something's been pushing players, they have said that it's too difficult so SE has made it easier.
Not just specific to a job, but in general as well.
Dungeons has been nerfed, missions has been nerfed.
Fights in general have almost everything marked out so you don't miss anything.
We even have system in place during some missions that if you fail you can retry it but can select an easier mode.

this is their problem sometimes you have to say no otherwise we end up having a braindead game. People asked for Elden Ring to have an easy mode and they never added it.

[Varipanda]

I have been more pushed levelling astro than I have any other classes in dungeons, I have also played a lot of MMO's and usually there is some wacky mischief that you can pull like no healer runs. I think there is a bit of confusion here with my point on dungeons . Dungeons being part of the MSQ SHOULD be the lowest common denominator for difficulty which they are and that means at that difficulty they should be essentially role agnostic if the players are good enough . but the community has responded by just saying ' Well I'll wall to wall then ' so there is a very difficult balance now you can
A) up the difficulty of all packs disallowing wall to walls from now on and the forums explode from that one decision.
B) Balance damage for the very best tanks to still be able to wall to wall but your average tank being unable to but culturally it will still be the standard because if Xeems can do it so can I will lead to the absolute curse of getting that one awful gun-breaker who was carried by a god tier white mage that one time.
c) remove all self heal skills from tanks , making them essentially shit dps with rampart seeing as they've already removed emnity
D) increase the difficulty of Dps rotations where you get the inevitable backlash of ' Im a healer not a dps'

I think the real solution is keep leveling dungeons as they are but normalize a higher level of play required in anything outside of the MSQ.which they've kind of already said they are doing.

[Kathryn]

A) up the difficulty of all packs disallowing wall to walls from now on and the forums explode from that one decision.

Sadly this wouldn't work, people don't like spending more time in a dungeon than they have to so if you make it so they can't go wall to wall pulls anymore you'll get Tank, Healer and DPS players complaining to make the difficulty lower again.

B) Balance damage for the very best tanks to still be able to wall to wall but your average tank being unable to but culturally it will still be the standard because if Xeems can do it so can I will lead to the absolute curse of getting that one awful gun-breaker who was carried by a god tier white mage that one time.

Balance will never be fully achieved, no game can do this there will always be a meta no matter how hard you try to balance things without complete homogenization.

c) remove all self heal skills from tanks , making them essentially shit dps with rampart seeing as they've already removed emnity

Then you'll have a Tank strike which will accomplish nothing, there is probably alrdy less Tanks than Healers actively participating in the role.

D) increase the difficulty of Dps rotations where you get the inevitable backlash of ' Im a healer not a dps'

This I can absolutely get behind, more buttons doesnt necessarily mean better, but more complex thought provoking rotations would absolutely work better across all jobs, but in the end most players will go meta and min max anyway, look at WoW as a prime example.

[Kes13a]

I think the real solution is keep leveling dungeons as they are but normalize a higher level of play required in anything outside of the MSQ.which they've kind of already said they are doing.

honestly, I would believe that when it happens. Yoshi also said that we were meant to be healers, not dps... well, in 7 we certainly arent really healers.. think one of the tanks has a better regen than I do, and certainly not dps either.

so what they say and what gets delivered is...unreliable.