#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[DivineP]

Hello my darlings,

I've been watching those thread so ill put my own 2 cents in.

As a healers main from ARR I've healed alot - I have lifer 3 and the Mentor mount for context.

In EW when warriors got so much self sustain, I couldn't even tell when to heal anymore. E.G how low do I let them go before bursting my heals etc. Bow that's a problem because i PUG alot so trying to keep up with all this sustain in a PUG is a problem.

I have idea what I can or can't do. And as mentioned ina PUG with random am I suppose to know if they can do their rotation properly and heal themselves or do I just dps away and they die?

Silly move by CBU3 cause I'm switching to DPS in DT because I can't keep up with all this silly mitigation stuff.

[ty_taurus]

Nobody is asking for complex dps rotations, though. I'm pretty sure even an Aero III dot would change healer downtime by a bit. You'd get to check 2 dots with different timers, while keeping everyone alive.
It worked before in Stormblood, why should it not now?

The maximum that I would like to see would be if specifically Sage’s DPS complexity were comparable to Gunbreaker’s, which to be fair really isn’t a lot. To be clear (because I have to be abundantly direct about these things or someone will inevitably come for my throat), I do not mean “give Sage Gunbreaker’s rotation”. I would just be interested in its rotation to be of comparable complexity to Gunbreaker’s. And I say this for Sage because that is a part of how it was originally described—as a DPS oriented healer. I would not ask the same of the other healers. They should approach things differently.

[OliviaLugria]

I mean, content becoming more boring with repetition and optimization is true for all jobs. That's just a function of the fact that FFXIV fights are entirely scripted. I don't disagree that it's more of an issue on healer and doing DPS could be a bit more engaging, but insisting that healers are all boring and awful because long stretches of just doing DPS is boring is willfully ignoring, y'know, the whole "healing" thing. In my opinion, the fun of healing is in that mit plan creation and CD optimization you mentioned- that aspect of healing remains, it just unfortunately isn't all that applicable in normal content.

As many have said, the baseline complexity of every other role keep those jobs interesting regardless of content. Repetition and optimization is endlessly fun on some jobs like black mage and monk, but others, mainly healers, become a solved puzzled that remains very surface level. Furthermore, unlike other jobs, as our team gets more gear, the less healers have do, pushing us more into the barebone dps rotation.

Despite the harder difficulty, you can't deny that a large portion, a majority even is spent focusing on dps. Your goal to heal effectively stems from the need to push dps.

Adding more dps options, or an intricate buff and debuff system, factoring in movement constraints, or whatever interesting mechanic the devs could implement doesn't take away from the fun parts of healing and planning, but fill in for that fun when the content doesn't allow for it to happen. When healing is a part of the picture, it creates an even more intricate encounter that is harder to solve and more rewarding when you do so.

[Moonjava]

As many have said, the baseline complexity of every other role keep those jobs interesting regardless of content. Repetition and optimization is endlessly fun on some jobs like black mage and monk, but others, mainly healers, become a solved puzzled that remains very surface level. Furthermore, unlike other jobs, as our team gets more gear, the less healers have do, pushing us more into the barebone dps rotation.

Despite the harder difficulty, you can't deny that a large portion, a majority even is spent focusing on dps. Your goal to heal effectively stems from the need to push dps.

Adding more dps options, or an intricate buff and debuff system, factoring in movement constraints, or whatever interesting mechanic the devs could implement doesn't take away from the fun parts of healing and planning, but fill in for that fun when the content doesn't allow for it to happen. When healing is a part of the picture, it creates an even more intricate encounter that is harder to solve and more rewarding when you do so.

Again, I understand the desire for more DPS options. SE has designed healers to be very oriented around heals, so their DPS rotation is lacking, so when there's no need to heal, it gets boring. I get that. I just don't think it's realistic to expect or demand any kind of genuinely intricate rotations or buff/debuff systems for healers, especially when SE apparently has gotten enough feedback stating the current AST card system was so overcomplicated that they felt justified in paring it down as much as they did.

The underlying problem here is that most fights aren't doing enough damage for the folks in this thread, so they're stuck DPSing more than they'd like, and DPSing on healer is boring. My beef is with the way this is being framed as all healer jobs being awful terrible garbage that are incredibly boring and unfun and pointless in all content with a million buttons that all do the same thing, when that's not the case.

[OliviaLugria]

Boring? Ya, a bit, go redo the msq on solo healer... really try to do any solo content on healer. It takes twice as long with nothing going for it. You can argue that it's not that much better for other jobs, but it is better.

Pointless? If you have a semi-comepetent warrior or paladin in a dungeon... yes, basically. Gunbreaker gets a little hairy and Darks actually need some skill, but you're perfectly fine cutting them. Unless a fight requireds a healer for some benigh reason, they have been cleared without them. I think the higher the difficulty the more a healer is valued, but I would like for them to be equally valuable in all content.

As for player feedback about astro, the xiv developers do not have a good system for gathering and listening to feedback. They can make whatever changes they want and say it was because of feedback. I think this is an incredibly deep and complex topic that could be discussed more, but I will save it for another time.

I agree a lot of this stems from xiv's fight design, but they have little intention of changing it. They don't have intentions of changing healers either, but I think enough upheaval might make them budge if even a little.

[Moonjava]

Boring? Ya, a bit, go redo the msq on solo healer... really try to do any solo content on healer. It takes twice as long with nothing going for it. You can argue that it's not that much better for other jobs, but it is better.

Pointless? If you have a semi-comepetent warrior or paladin in a dungeon... yes, basically. Gunbreaker gets a little hairy and Darks actually need some skill, but you're perfectly fine cutting them. Unless a fight requireds a healer for some benigh reason, they have been cleared without them. I think the higher the difficulty the more a healer is valued, but I would like for them to be equally valuable in all content.

As for player feedback about astro, the xiv developers do not have a good system for gathering and listening to feedback. They can make whatever changes they want and say it was because of feedback. I think this is an incredibly deep and complex topic that could be discussed more, but I will save it for another time.

I agree a lot of this stems from xiv's fight design, but they have little intention of changing it. They don't have intentions of changing healers either, but I think enough upheaval might make them budge if even a little.

Once again, I'm not denying healers can be boring and have little to do in solo/normal content. I am arguing against the assertion that they are fundamentally boring and pointless, because that's just not true in harder content.

The real trouble is that SE did try to address this exact feedback about healing being boring with Abyssos, and it went terribly for them- they increased raidwide damage significantly, and in response, healers quit en masse. They have little reason to try again only to face that backlash again. That said, I would posit that mit skills being upgraded pretty much across the board (for healers, tanks, and DPS all) might suggest they may be planning to increase raidwide damage again for Dawntrail, and all this doomposting may be premature. One can only hope we'll all be pleasantly surprised.

[Supersnow845]

Once again, I'm not denying healers can be boring and have little to do in solo/normal content. I am arguing against the assertion that they are fundamentally boring and pointless, because that's just not true in harder content.

The real trouble is that SE did try to address this exact feedback about healing being boring with Abyssos, and it went terribly for them- they increased raidwide damage significantly, and in response, healers quit en masse. They have little reason to try again only to face that backlash again. That said, I would posit that mit skills being upgraded pretty much across the board (for healers, tanks, and DPS all) might suggest they may be planning to increase raidwide damage again for Dawntrail, and all this doomposting may be premature. One can only hope we'll all be pleasantly surprised.

Abyssos problem was the raidwide bleeds were controlled by the initial hit damage

Why am I a “shield” healer when I get 3 mitigations (for the purpose of a bleedwide succor and seraph aren’t mitigations because they don’t change the bleeds damage) and the rest of the party collectively has another 15

I had no control in abyssos no matter how much I begged people to press their mitigation, they never did but they always blamed me when the raidwide shredded their health

If you want me to be the shield healer give me the mitigation not give it to the SAM who’d rather drift it then argue with me for 10 minutes over just pressing it when I tell them to press it because I gave them my mit plan

Abyssos was the messiest and most healer hostile way they could increase healing because it gave healers all the blame but none of the control

[OliviaLugria]

You think that healers are "casual" but i know ppl who say that healers are too complex for them.

I can understand why they feel that way when 90% of the buttons on their bar aren't actually useful for the content they play.

[SamLeens]

I can understand why they feel that way when 90% of the buttons on their bar aren't actually useful for the content they play.

No. Its too much because they have to deal dmg and heal the party. they dont like the idea and prefer playing a dd bc he only has to deal dmg and nothing else.

[KageTokage]

Doing harder content does not magically fix the issues with tanks/healers when said content has been done with one healer or no healers at all.

There is still not enough damage going out to stress their kits even in ultimate, which is why I feel extremely hesitant to think that's suddenly gonna change in DT.