#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

I feel like people finding Aurora 'weak' because they are more susceptible to becoming overheals, does not comes as a burst heal, or combination of both. To give people a perspective, I did a bit of firsthand testing in-game without accounting criticals.

GNB (i727)
Aurora (60s) = 69k in total.
HoC (25s) = 34k. Adding this just for an extra!

Now compare that to...

WHM (i727)
Tetragrammaton (60s) = 36k.
Regen (GCD) = 82.5k. Adding this one here as an extra as well!

I like to use Tetragrammaton as a comparison to Aurora because both come with 60s. Both has 2 charges by capstone level. If people feel better by looking at HoT to HoT comparison, sure we have the recently added DT Ewer which amounts to... 54.4k healing per shot. With what's effectively a 2m cooldown. Is Aurora obscenely powerful? Well if you compare that to Bloody-whetting, everything just pales in comparison. But that's still yet another small prick of an issue being added to the camel's back. One Aurora from you = One less 'Tetra'/<insert any oGCD here> from me. Even more mindless spamming for me.

[ForsakenRoe]

I want Tank mains and/or SE to answer, simply:

Take Dawntrail PLD.

1: Replace the 400p selfheal of Holy Spirit/Circle, Confiteor, and the Blades combo, with a 400p self-barrier effect that lasts 9s. Additional applications add more 'layers' (like Panhaima), so that you don't 'lose' effectiveness by using the Blade combo (which would overwrite a non-stacking barrier). Adding a new 'stack' refreshes the 9s timer, so timing your Holy Spirit proc usage to extend your self-protection duration could be an interesting new optimization avenue.

2: Replace the 4 ticks of 250p selfhealing from Holy Sheltron and Intervention, and replace them with '4 layers of 250p of barrier' that last for 12s. Using a second Holy Sheltron adds another 4 stacks, but only refreshes the duration to 12s.

3: Clemency stays as a 1000p heal, as it is not causing much of a problem due to being a GCD (ie it has a cost to your damage to use it)

With these changes in mind, how does this improve/detract from PLD gameplay?

I would argue that this would not nerf PLD, but actually BUFF it, as you'd have a 'free' 250p barrier attached to any Holy Sheltron you happen to use, 'overhealing' with the effects is not possible (instead you just run the risk of the barrier expiring before it gets used up), and all of the potencies being 1:1 means that you would have the same amount of 'self sustain', just, instead of it being via 'restore own HP', it's 'protect own HP from going down in the first place', which I think is far more thematic to Tanks. It wouldn't suddenly solve every issue with Healer gameplay, of course, but we gotta start somewhere, and this seems like as good a place as any

The same changes can also be applied to other Tanks as needed

[CKNovel]

The thing with Aurora is why does it even exist? Like there is nothing thematic about it, and I think this is becoming a wider problem with tank healing.

It's only to be the "self healing button", GNB has no healing tools but at the same time it's so weak you'll be at full health at half its duration or the incoming damage will stop.

I don't disagree Aurora doesn't thematically fits a tank, even if it was buffed to a point where it's relevant enough, it's still not fitting for a tank.
If you want my two cents, it should be a shield that slowly builds up, the effect would be similar, the HPS would be similar but it would see a lot more different plays. Or keep the HoT effect but add a bonus on healing received, which would thematically fits better the tank role.

Thought as Alice pointed out, it's a game issue. As long as we remain in this HP game trap, you'll still see Healerless/Tankless clears.

[Rithy255]

Yeah I think in the soup tanks have lost sight of just how powerful their buttons are. The amount of people who’ve dismissed my point that HS’s heal is way too strong is hilarious

Like it’s a 40% mitigation with a 700 healer potency heal on like a 20 second CD. That’s the kinda healing your healer should be putting out, not your tank

Just to Counter this

1. It's not even close to a "40%" mit, but to a extent I agree the Mitigation part should be more weak I'd value it at just making it one 20% instead of two 15%'s stacked.
2. It's limited to single target, Veil and shake are the only cases of AOE Healing, despite that I do think shake is too strong with the regen aspects, though I can agree that maybe we shouldn't really have the AOE heal on tanks even if its a weak 200-300 healer equal potency.
3. It's a regen not a burst heal, regens tend to be stronger in total potency at the cost of being slow, despite this one lilly skill from white mage already beats it ontop of white mage having other skills.
4. Holy Sheltron is based on auto's which makes it a non consistent 21s cooldown.

Not to say I'm not against removing healing from magic attacks on pld (that's a instance where it stacked with HS is too much) it's actually something I want I don't think it fits the theme of a paladin to heal from attacking a enemy personally. Holy sheltron on it's own is in no way comparable to the amount of healing a healer brings, I also disagree with aurora being buffed I've said this and i think the excog needs to be halved in potency

These "additional effects" also set the cooldowns apart at least making them somewhat different such as PLD having a HOT, while GNB has a burst heal.

I think it's you thats lost sight on tank cooldowns because you see a tank in a dungeon do your job for you and you see it as "well it's obviously the tanks fault for having too much healing cooldowns!" but in reality its the Mitigation and the lack of outgoing damage being the reason why you dont really need to heal.

[Supersnow845]

I think it's you thats lost sight on tank cooldowns because you see a tank in a dungeon do your job for you and you see it as "well it's obviously the tanks fault for having too much healing cooldowns!" but in reality its the Mitigation and the lack of outgoing damage being the reason why you dont really need to heal.

The thing is whether outgoing damage is too low or not (it is) every tank heal is one heal a healer doesn’t need to press. It is not lost on me how strong mitigation is and how low outgoing damage is but in a world where the damage is low enough that the tanks and healers are fighting over who’s healing gets to heal the limited amount of damage it should be the healer healing that damage. That’s not to say damage shouldn’t be higher anyway to allow both to meaningfully contribute but the answer to “there is so little damage tanks can heal it alone and square won’t fix this” is just as much to allow the healers to actually heal this limited damage rather than throw our hands up and go “well tank healing would be roughly balanced if more damage went out”

Every HS is a heal I don’t need to press, every blade combo is two heals I don’t have to press, depending on the situation intervention can be up to 3 heals I don’t have to press, BW has infinite potential, equilibrium is a heal I don’t have to press.

Removing these heals wouldn’t “fix” healers but it would be a marked improvement. Why is maintenance of tank gameplay more important here

[Rithy255]

Snip

asking why tanks gameplay and enjoyment is important is ridiculous, No one is saying that it isn't important for healers to feel valid in the party and that they should have more to do (frankly anyone who is against healers having more to do, just doesn't obviously play healers), but you act as if stuff like holy sheltron regen would actually fix your issues with healer design, they will barely make a difference, I mean did you heal old endwalker dark knights much? I know I didn't need to especially during boss fights that's because they have tons of mitigation and very little damage.

I feel like your the one throwing your hands up, by insinuating that we should just accept low damage output and nerf tanks so healers can have the fun while tanking becomes even more miserable for people like me who enjoy supportive cooldowns, because funnily enough I don't just play "paladin" to be a Mitigation and aggro bot, I play it to support and help my team partly as well. (which includes a bit of healing... surpise I want to help contribute a bit of healing as a "paladin" funny that...)

Sure changing damage profiles and only nerfing down some sustain aspects wouldn't fully fix healers or tanks in older content, but I don't really see why we should let the old content hold us back, it's not like old content is actually giving any attention or care for balance.

All I'm saying is that tanks and healers are both important, you act like we have to sacrifice these things (even skills like curing waltz that can add a little but of positioning nuance to dancer), for the sake of healers being balanced and all I've ever said is no we don't actually need to change too much outside of obvious over bloated self healing such as pld healing off the blade combos or warriors entire kit at this point.

Tanks could also take some healing pressure off healers, I think a difference a good tank should make is the fact they may save healer some gcd heals to help damage with good communication and teamwork, the issue is you never need to GCD heal because the entire lack of damage issue, with frankly both healers and tanks having way too many mit/heal skills, so theirs no actual skill expression of using these said cooldowns currently on tanks, but I want that i want to work together with healers as a tank in this team based game.

All I'm saying is that we can have our cake and eat it too in this situation, maybe we might have to make some changes and I fully agree on nerfing sustain, but I draw the line when your so insistent that every "free" healing cooldown on a non healer must go or you will not compromise or be happy.

[Supersnow845]

snip

You drew the line at a point I never made so I’m not sure who you are apparently arguing with

The only point of yours I argued with was the idea that nerfing tank sustain wouldn’t make healers better (NOT FIX; better) because yes there was a world of difference in EW healing a DRK vs healing a WAR/PLD. Healing the DRK didn’t “fix” healers but at least I got to heal which was a marketed improvement over healing the WAR/PLD

That was my only point. They could fix both of these issues by upping damage. HOWEVER since we have screamed into a void for 5 years asking damage to be raised and their response is to lower damage and up healing in the world where damage can be healed by either the tank or the healer but doesn’t need both it should be the HEALER doing the healing. That won’t fix healers but that was never my point

We don’t actually disagree, you are just arguing with a point I didn’t make

[Aravell]

Personally, I view the tank/healer issue as 'encroachment vs supplementation'.

Currently, a WAR can just heal themselves and their co-tank back up from a double tankbuster with Nascent Flash without any input from either healer within the party, that makes Nascent Flash an encroachment upon the healer role.

Meanwhile, a WHM cannot simply toss an Aquaveil on a tank and allow them to survive a tankbuster with no input from the tank, that makes Aquaveil supplementary to the tank role.

The path they can take now is either to cut tank healing down to only supplementing the healer's job or they can limit the tank's healing directly with restrictions/losses.

[AmiableApkallu]

I’m becoming more and more convinced (similar to right back in SB) that nothing will change with healing design until something manages to pull back the curtain for these average players and shows them how garbage WHM actually is or the reverse where fight design changes so that WHM stands on its own two feet and all healers move forward together rather than the current design of WHM being an enforced burden on the shield healers who’s crying wishing for an AST or the other shield healer

Because I've been playing through the FFIV Pixel Remaster these past days…

[Kacho_Nacho]

Because I've been playing through the FFIV Pixel Remaster these past days…

Misread that and thought you wrote you were playing through a FFXIV Pixel Remaster. I was like, there's a pixel remaster of this game??? I'd play that in a heartbeat!