#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[CaptainLagbeard]

Nascent Flash, even when usable on yourself was somewhat fine back then, as before up to the release of 5.0, Inner Beast had the effect of healing you for 100% of the damage it dealt... So you could Inner Release to throw out 4-5 free Inner Beasts for a good amount of healing with a short lingering 20% mit... Though the difference is that Inner Release was on a 90s CD instead of Nascent's 25s.

[Absurdity]

WAR in SHB: X healing from Nascent Flash (X being equal to damage dealt, so weaker hits like Overpower = weaker healing. Also, on an ally the healing was reduced by 50%), 20% HP restored per 2min via Thrill of Battle, 1200p per 60s from Equilibrium

It doesn't mention it in the tooltip from back then but Nascent only healed you for 50% of your damage dealt and that was reduced by another 50% for the ally you targeted.

Nascent Flash, even when usable on yourself was somewhat fine back then, as before up to the release of 5.0, Inner Beast had the effect of healing you for 100% of the damage it dealt... So you could Inner Release to throw out 4-5 free Inner Beasts for a good amount of healing with a short lingering 20% mit... Though the difference is that Inner Release was on a 90s CD instead of Nascent's 25s.

The IR + Inner Beast spam also came at the cost of a sizeable dps loss, so even if you technically could heal for a ridiculous amount every 90 seconds you really didn't want to, the 5x Fell Cleave during Inner Release were like 50% of your total damage.

Nascent Flash in ShB was kept in line by Warrior's basic 1-2-3 simply not being very good, you couldn't just spam it on cooldown unlike Bloodwhetting.
All you would get out of random NF usage without proper setup was wet noodle healing since Warrior even back then had most of it's damage stuffed into the IR windows and your "downtime" DPS was pretty bad.

But this is probably also why they changed it with Endwalker, bad Warriors complaining about NF's low healing because they used it on a Heavy Swing -> Maim -> Storm's combo.

[CKNovel]

Were WARs completely useless in ARR and HW when they were like that?

Running 2 paladins was better in ARR, there was no penalty for double jobs back then and WAR only had a tank stance.
It's only until HW that WAR got a lot of fixes and had a strong DPS while Paladin fell down due to many reasons related to TP or its identity as a physical tank without physical encounter.

[Supersnow845]

The thing with Aurora is why does it even exist? Like there is nothing thematic about it, and I think this is becoming a wider problem with tank healing.

Sure you can argue Aurora is weak or “not worth deleting” but why does a tank have a self oGCD regen they can share that doesn’t actually interact with their kit at all other than just be a 1800 potency heal. Like why does it exist? I can also point to the regen on HS or the ability for WAR to straight up benediction another player with no cost or shield the entire party because……..angry?

Even beyond warping the game balance a lot of these heals just don’t even thematically fit the classes they are apart of compared to thematic heals like clemency or TBN

[Alice_Rivers]

I've said previously, I'll say it again, adjusting tanks kits (and I stress adjusting) is only part of the answer and alone simply treats a symptom of the problem rather than addressing the problem itself. If nothing does enough damage to threaten us then what need is there for tanks? Much less healers. Therefore while reining in the most egregious tank skills is something that should happen, it should be in conjunction with a general rebalance of incoming damage throughout the game. I did Copperbell Mines just now and a telegraphed AOE on second boss did more damage than first boss' tank buster, my pocket tank who previously defended this tank buster when I mentioned it to them previously suddenly saw my point, it did 95 damage to them with no mits that I saw, that is to say "it did nothing, if not for the flashy effect it wouldn't have been noticed at all". Sure, this is baby's third dungeon and baby sprout is learning, so why are they being taught that what tank mechanics exist are completely ignorable?

While I might not advocate for the first tankbuster you see being multiple times the tank's HP and insta-killing an unsuspecting player (though I DO advocate that past level 50, your basic tutorial is OVER at that point, time to start improving your play), it should be enough that both tank and healer are forced to pay attention and learn that tank busters are actually a threat.

[Tint]

Running 2 paladins was better in ARR, there was no penalty for double jobs back then and WAR only had a tank stance.
It's only until HW that WAR got a lot of fixes and had a strong DPS while Paladin fell down due to many reasons related to TP or its identity as a physical tank without physical encounter.

WAR got fixed in patch 2.1, so shorty after ARR release.

When WAR got buffed they basically added PLD mitigation on top of the (slightly nerfed) self heals and better dps and WAR was the best tank from 2.1 onwards. Holmgang only had a 3 minute cooldown back then, Vengeance a 2 minute cooldown compared to PLDs Sentinel with 3 minutes, Inner Beast was the first on-demand "cooldown" with 20% mitigation. WAR had more mitigation than PLD back then thanks to the shorter cooldowns. Plus party mitigation with Storm's Path and raid dps with Slashing debuff (at least when they added NIN later in ARR, before that you could make little use of it).

https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...c43828a#battle (there is an error, it says Brutal Swing instead of Marauder)

When they added the dps stance for WAR and Fell Cleave in HW the balance was completely off, but WAR was powerfull even before that. It was only between 2.0 and 2.1 that WAR was useless. WAR could not even reach the accuracy caps for Coil T5 without the axe from the ex primals they added in 2.1 if I remember correctly. The job was a complete oversight.

[Rithy255]

I've said previously, I'll say it again, adjusting tanks kits (and I stress adjusting) is only part of the answer and alone simply treats a symptom of the problem rather than addressing the problem itself. If nothing does enough damage to threaten us then what need is there for tanks? Much less healers. Therefore while reining in the most egregious tank skills is something that should happen, it should be in conjunction with a general rebalance of incoming damage throughout the game. I did Copperbell Mines just now and a telegraphed AOE on second boss did more damage than first boss' tank buster, my pocket tank who previously defended this tank buster when I mentioned it to them previously suddenly saw my point, it did 95 damage to them with no mits that I saw, that is to say "it did nothing, if not for the flashy effect it wouldn't have been noticed at all". Sure, this is baby's third dungeon and baby sprout is learning, so why are they being taught that what tank mechanics exist are completely ignorable?

While I might not advocate for the first tankbuster you see being multiple times the tank's HP and insta-killing an unsuspecting player (though I DO advocate that past level 50, your basic tutorial is OVER at that point, time to start improving your play), it should be enough that both tank and healer are forced to pay attention and learn that tank busters are actually a threat.

Thank you, I find this post refreshing and actually doesn't aim to just blame tanks or dps for healer issues, I think it's important that yes some skills are overtuned on tanks, bloodwhetting for example you can never balance that skill to be fair in a AOE situation. In general it's a issue with How little tanks take.

I also believe bosses could even make use of skills like intervention, TBN ect. Where a ally healer or dps will take high damage, Either the tank or healer can be enough to save them, instances of high AOE damage and DOT debuffs with raid wides ect, Let pulls hurt even more, let me do even more big pulls as a tank (like mt.gulg that dungeon had some pretty thrilling pulls)

Let us actually Use our kits as tanks and healers. This is the more productive path of actually making both roles feel good in dungeons, raids ect, also have this reflect on hard content where healers and tanks are both needed.

[Supersnow845]

I think you’ll find there is few people here who don’t see that the unbalance of the trinity originates from tanks functionally not having a role mechanic. That’s commonly understood and few people disagree with that

The thing is though this thread is primarily about healer grievances. Like sure I sympathise with tanks functionally not having a role mechanic, but to me as a healer first and foremost tanks doing my role because they don’t have a role is more important to me than fixing tanks lack of a role because if they fixed tanks lack of a role right now they’d probably just leave the self healing in and healers would still have nothing

Tanks need more to do and more reason to interact with their kit so that they don’t fill the void with healing, but in the healer thread the problems of tank healing usurping the healer role are more important than why tanks are usurping the healer role. Especially since when tanks shoved us out we didn’t get anything in compensation, we are still designed like the tanks are as squishy as your average caster

I don’t hate tanks (tanking is my secondary main) but you have to understand you are going to find limited sympathy for the lack of tank mechanics here when the lack of tank mechanics just caused them to usurp healer mechanics with little compensation

[BDBlaffy]

I just want to point out that Aurora is no where near close to being "weak/not worth it". In it's current iteration, even accounting for the maim and mend trait on healers, it does a total of 1260 healing potency (again potency that is adjusted to match what a healer role heal potency is) on a single use, is an oGCD, has 2 charges, and is only on a 60 second cooldown. Simply in raw mathamatical terms, this is an insane amount of healing output for a non healer role to have. It's literally more powerful than a lot of healer oGCDs, and encroches on the pure healer's GCD regens like Aspected Benefic or Regen which are both only 1500 potency. Every tank in the game has egregious amounts of healing, it's not just Aurora. But I just wanted to say that in terms of pure mathamatics calling it any varient of weak is just factually incorrect.

[Supersnow845]

Yeah I think in the soup tanks have lost sight of just how powerful their buttons are. The amount of people who’ve dismissed my point that HS’s heal is way too strong is hilarious

Like it’s a 40% mitigation with a 700 healer potency heal on like a 20 second CD. That’s the kinda healing your healer should be putting out, not your tank