#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[YarnMage48]

And above all, #make-tank-buster-hurt-again

I can get behind that!

[Azurarok]

you'll end up with DPS who don't see the need to respect mechanics. I actually wish that DPS got damage downs in normal content as well as Savage/EX, because a vuln stack really is more of a punishment to the healer than the player who messed up. Regardless, I do think that there needs to be felt consequences for failing mechanics in normal content. They gotta learn somehow.

Sometimes cheesing a mech is fine, maybe even the better strat because it's safer than trying to coordinate the ddr at times, like many of the double tankbusters and forced swaps being cheesed with invulns or hypermitigating Sphene Ex's Royal Authority.

Hmmm but I think you could balance the tax damage a little higher and still have a good difficulty level. At least take away some of the overpowered tank healing and mitigation, so that we don't have literally nothing to do during pulls if we have certain tanks in the party. Although the tax aoe's in some pulls, like the last pull of Strayburough, are a good idea. I'm not 100% happy with the execution but I like that they did something different with the pulls. But at any rate, I think there needs to be a good balance between tax damage and mistake damage, so that there's room for some mistakes in a run with a new healer.

I really liked healing through that pull when it was new. It showcased the shiny new lv100 skills pretty well at the time but it unfortunately didn't take too long to get outgeared. Same goes for the M4N laser spam at the end.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Something that I love about cheesing -some- mech, they allow a little bit of knowledge/skill expression, letting people get a bit creative with their use of actions.

But over time I came closer to a conclusion that SE doesn't like their player to get creative so... /shrug

[Supersnow845]

I think one problem with the doll AOE’s in staryborough they have yet to properly come up with a rectification for is for the shield healers a vast majority of what they use to heal the tank is already AOE

Like WHM and AST between solace, bension, tetra and Bene for WHM and non damage cards, exaltation, intersection and ED for AST the regen healers have a varied array of single target healing that forces you to consider the proper use of your more limited AOE kit when the party is also taking damage (especially WHM as solace and rapture share resources)

Meanwhile the shield healers single target kit is weak and functionally vestigial outside of the fairy/kardia. Your primary healing tools for tank only healing in a dungeon are soil/kerechole physis/whispering dawn and seraph/panhiama with really only excog/taurochole being dedicated common use single target heals (and I guess seraphic veil/haima). So in the situation with the dolls I recite excog the tank then throw down soil and whispering dawn, if the dolls didn’t AOE I would………..recite excog the tank then throw down soil and whispering dawn

[YarnMage48]

snip

I was trying to stay on topic. I NEED you to answer why 700 potency isn't relevant in a heal plan for a savage raid. Come on, tell me how your group handled it. Did you not do any direct healing in between those hits, and if so, how did you handle it? Why is 700 potency of healing not relevant for for those mechanics?

If you can't answer that, then I have illustrated a significant gameplay difference between skills.

Also I explained that there's a long DoT with increasing potency, which means mean that Physis won't cut it because you'd need to continue healing while it's on cooldown, and you'd want the higher potency of Philosophia as the phase continued. Not to mention that there's a stack during that phase that takes Kerachole, and of course you can't hit Kerochole every 30 seconds for the regen anyway because your gauge doesn't support that. I'm not sure how "niche" of a situation you're looking for, but there's certainly use for it.

Besides all of that, you may not have felt my answer was "niche" enough, but it was certainly inaccurate to say that all I did was rephrase the tooltip. You then went on at length about how you can both read tooltips and do better than rephrasing them. What was the point of that?

To your last point, if you aren't paying attention in dungeons, that's on you. You do still need to do some healing in dungeons. And again, its not about whether or not you are bored. Its about new players being able to learn, and they do in fact learn through dungeon content. In fact, dungeons are great for learning one of the most important skills of a healer - crisis management. And because the penalties for failing mechanics get progressively higher, the crisis management ask becomes higher as well.

[YarnMage48]

snip ”

Since you insist on adding a new topic to the mix before we've resolved the current one, I can easily address that as well. In fact, you've already helped to do so.

You said that "skills were added to SCH’s kit over time to fulfill particular niches". Well, when creating a new healer, they needed to make sure that their skills could meet the same requirements as Scholar. in fact, as Rein pointed out, they had to add the mit to Holos because it was needed. It's important to be able to clear any content with either option as your shield healer (or throwing the shield/pure healer dichotomy to the wind and grabbing whichever two healers you want). But they also had to make sure that the healers are balanced to each other. There is overlap in the skillset because of the combination of encounter design and ensuring content is equally playable by all classes. There's even overlap between all 4 healers. I mean really, how different is Aetherflow from Astral and Umbral draw? It has a 1-minute cooldown, you get 20% of mana regened, and it charges the use of skills. Lady of Crowns has the same heal as Indomitability. If you look, you'll see the similarities between healers everywhere.

Now, as I've said, they could have tried to design Sage from the ground up, but ultimately, you'd still end up with a lot of similarities because of the reasons above. You'd still be working with weaker options that you can use more often and stronger options that you can use less often. You'd still have a resource gauge of some kind, because all jobs have them. You'd probably still see similarities in shield/mit/heal potencies/cooldown lenghts so that things could stay balanced. But instead of reinventing the wheel, they chose to utilize a base resource system that they knew worked, and gave it it's own identity from there. And frankly, Kardia being a DPS-based heal, having access to both pure and hybrid GCD heals swapped by using Eukrasia, a mobility system fueled by GCD shields being used (in sharp contrast to the standard lower potency instant cast that other casters get), a base oGCD toolset/mana economy system that focuses on using gauge skills rather than filling the gauge, as well as unique skills like Haima and Panhaima are all a really strong start. Additionally, the additional damage options on Sage are charge/CD based, rather than gauge based, and Sage focuses more on raw damage as opposed to the SCH crit buff. Sage is more mobile, even with additions to Scholar mobility, but Scholar can combine different elements in unique ways to create some truly overpowered effects. Could there be more differentiation? Certainly! But I do think Sage already has a strong identity apart from Scholar. Also, Sage doesn't rely on a fairy to do a significant amount of the healing. Sage just does it all with their own skills. No fae assistance required.

[Supersnow845]

snip

I knew we’d finally reach this point. The “SGE has to be a copy of SCH because otherwise it wouldn’t be able to function as a job”. This isn’t a reason, this is playing into squares lazy and excessively restrictive design. SGE only has to excessively blatantly copy SCH because square has no job design creativity. Reiner didn’t say that holos needed a mit, Reiner pointed out that SGE was struggling in DSR because SCH could cheese mechanics in DSR with spreadlo, it had nothing to do with holos mitigation. But that doesn’t mean you just homogenise them further to make SGE broadly functional, you give people an actual strength of SGE to play it that dominates SCH. You differentiate not homogenise You even point to astral/umbral draw. Let me remind you THAT WAS MADE IN DT AND AST HAS FUNCTIONED FINE FOR 4 EXPANSIONS. There isn’t any sort of necessity behind squares actions, it’s laziness and limited design creativity. You can notice this with the regen healers. They simply do not have remotely close to the kit overlap the shield healers have and they still function as they are. Similarities should exist but there is no excuse for having a near one to one analogue of almost every skill

And again with your philosophia example that’s the way you solved it with your mit plan. A use case of a skill in a mit plan is not a niche (unless it’s a hyper specific example like macrocosmos in P3). You may have consumed kerechole in close proximity so you couldn’t use kerechole but that doesn’t mean everyone did. “Another regen” isn’t a niche. I don’t know how to make this clearer. Your personal mitigation plan can’t be extrapolated as core game design which is why the “700 potency” example is not extrapolable. Did I use oppisition in my mit plan and not use the remaining healing because it wasn’t needed……yes. Does that actually mean anything outside of being an individual mit plan as our AST oppisitoined there regardless of which shield healer I was on. It doesn’t change my original overarching point that my SCH mit plan shouldn’t functionally work on SGE. Like I said in an earlier post, if I was actually trying on SGE I would have told our AST “don’t opposition there I can cover this with holos” but I’m not claiming my SCH mit plan is perfect on SGE, I’m claiming it’s broadly functional (90-95% of the way there) which IS a problem

I also have no idea why you think “crisis management” gets higher, if you die above 82 the tank can just leave you dead on the floor while they play the party healer. Dungeon healing is literally a reverse curve being hardest at the very early levels

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Astral/Umbral Draw is likely their response to combination of (1)players who wants not just damage cards to play around with; and (2)players who complain about RNG... on an RNG job since ShB/EW version dropped.

(1) was addressed but very half baked considering they're just yet another heal/mit cooldowns that can't be manipulated by something like old Spread and Royal Road. If the cards are static then there's just no way to 'play around' with them. But by far the worst offender would be (2) because they caved in by warping a job identity when those people who don't like RNG could just play 2-3 other healers. Of course at the end of the day, SE are to ultimately to blame because it should've been their responsibility to properly parse why XYZ feedbacks are made and make proper changes (or don't) according to that—they are the ones who had the power to pull the levers.

[SongOfTheWind]

Ff14 doesn’t know what to do with pet jobs, so they butchered smn. Based on how they copied sch into sge and made all tanks the same - they also don’t know what to do with mits/shields outside of virtually one scenario, apparently.

[Connor]

Maybe sometimes it better to agree to disagree and leave it at that? Last four/five pages of this thread are effectively the same post…
‘SGE is SCH’ ‘
No it’s SGE’
‘Actually it’s SCH 3.5’
‘Super Wrong it is SGE v2.0’

They both mostly suck to play. Maybe we could focus on that lol