Thread: Black Mage Design in 7.0, and some potential changes.

This post will focus mainly on the changes presented in the media tour and possible changes that would allow Black Mage to feel the best it can be! But I will start with why players are upset.

The reason players are upset is due to the rigid nature of the updated rotation, and the removal of the MP regen as well as Ice paradox. These changes have fundamentally changed what BLM is allowed to do outside of the standard play, known as "Non-standard".
Non-standard has been around for a long while, but EW allowed non-standard play to really stand out as an alternative way to engage with the job in certain content, such as savage and Ultimate. Non-standard play was a massive benefit for not just the BLM players, but the community at large, for allowing BLM to no longer rely on the party to adjust for them in a majority of situations. Non-standard allowed for uptime while certain mechanics were in play, preventing typical standard play. Certain fights would see BLM at a massive disadvantage in fights like TOP or p12s, where standard play is not easily done without massive risk and party adjustment. Most players play in Partyfinder and do not like to adjust for a single caster.
Speaking plainly, Non-standard was not developed by design and is akin to a good error. Understandably, the team would want to keep BLM in line with the intended design to make future development easier. I believe that the team should reconsider their design stance and attempt to allow a design that keeps BLM's simplistic rotation with the ability to be flexible via multiple different options, and these options should be weaker in potency I can agree with the devs on that.

Due to the character limit, I have to spread this into multiple posts.

I want to introduce a few solutions that will bridge a gap between standard and mobility options, similar to non-standard without preventing standard play from being the most potent.
1) Allow for Paradox to carry over into Umbral Ice (UI). It is understandable why Ice Paradox was removed, as it allowed for unintentional DPS patterns that could rival the standard play, and is the major keystone to non-standard. With that in mind, allowing paradox to carry over into ice can allow for interesting GCD usage in UI to regain MP. This wouldn't take away from its intended use of being an Astral Fire (AF) timer refresher, as it would still be better used in AF, but it would give BLM a better UI phase when the player does not have the resources or time to hard cast Blizzard 3 into Blizzard 4.
Allowing this change will help reduce the current GCD bloat that BLM is currently affected by in the media tour footage (as a fire starter is always guaranteed, there will always be 2 GCDs that are used in AF, and a 3rd if the player has a xenoglossy ready.)
Another aspect that can change is tying its potency value to the AF/UI, much like the other Fire spells. these changes can make Paradox an option for skilled players and not a damage gain. These changes will also keep the identity of the move without raising questions on why the VFX/Animation and icon have an ice look when it is a glorified upgraded Fire 1 and maintains its lore.
Shortened version: Keep Paradox as gained in AF with the current requirements, but allow it to be cast in UI, perhaps even restoring MP with it.
2) Allow Despair to gain 3 stacks of the Flare Star Gauge (FSG). This is asked under the assumption, and hope, that the FSG does not get reset when using manafont in the burst window. If Manafont does not reset the gauge, players will end up using Flare rather than Despair to gain an additional Flare Star in the burst rotation.
3) Allow for the Flare Star Gauge (FSG) to carry over into UI. This is pretty simplistic in its reasoning, that being that it may not always be possible to fully throw out Flare star (FS) before the boss becomes un-targetable. Giving the player the option to hold onto their FSG may make instances where the player cannot do the longer cast more bearable as it does not feel like the player is throwing away a high-potency move for mobility.

These 3 changes can allow high-level BLM players to have the option to adjust their rotation to fit a fight when standard play is not possible without major punishment or party adjustment. These changes would still have standard play be the strongest option in any given scenario but allow flexibility when needed. I hope the developers understand why I and many others are giving out our feedback so heavily. I want my BLM to be a team player like everyone else, not a turret that 7 other people need to adjust for.

Another major problem that needs to be fixed is mana regen for BLM under level 76 and downtime. This will be the biggest hurdle that new BLM players will face when trying to level the job, as they may feel discouraged and confused when they aren't able to get back into the fight like every other job. having to spend more time casting lower potency ice spells that don't feel good to use in order to regen MP will undoubtedly turn people away from the job. Umbral soul will more than likely need to become an ability that is obtained at level 50 or before then. However, this also raises the issue that BLM would become more front-loaded in terms of gaining abilities, and may cause confusion or frustration to a newer player, and may make leveling feel more of a slog than before.

Before I end this post, I would like to type one more thing that I hope to see in 8.0 and beyond. Other jobs in the Dawntrail media tour have their repeated abilities (such as MCH Overheat) to gain different animations for essentially the same action. I would like to see BLM gain different casting animations and VFX for repeated usage of Fire 4, even if there is no real effect to doing so. I have been looking at this casting animation since Heavensward, I would like to see it evolve as well!

Thank you for reading, I hope you take this feedback into great consideration!
If anyone would like, please share your own potential solutions, or add onto what I have already stated if something that should be mentioned was not.

First:
I agree with the despair thing. It looks a little weird, that this didnt support the new gauge.

Aside of that:

MP reg)
Whe will have or normal mp reg.
Why are all people saying, that the BLM would be the only class, who would be able to regenerate the mp like every other class is doing it.

What changed is simply, that the naturaly regeneration isnt as strong as before anymore.
In exchange, is the skill regeneration even stronger and probably even faster as before. As long as whe dont have 0 Mp, is it completly meaningless, how slow the naturaly mp regeneration would be. Because: After a few ice spells, would whe have max mp ready.
And have whe very low mp, is there the other skill to strenght the mp regeneration over time. Who every other caster has to.
BLM is the caster, who has the less problems with mana regeneration. And i dont think, that it will change now.

Paradox)
They probably doesnt removed it from the ice phase, to hurt non-standard. Or, because it would be "to strong".
Its probably removed, because it doesnt had any propose left.

Whe needed some attacks for the ice phase, to have something to do, until the mp was ready. Having a strong skill was a nice thing and helped to hold the timer up. Fopr the phase itself was Paradox mostly weak. Because it filled only 1 soul point.
But now, do whe only need 2 attacks to finish the whole ice phase. Blizzard is creating instantly the 3 souls. And Freeze is creating the ice shards. And gives us max mp, because of the 3 ice souls. After that, have whe no reasons anymore, to stay in the ice phase. Except of downtime, when whe are not able to attack the enemie in a good way (like, the meteor phase again Thal).
Because of that, is a ice Paradox questionable. Because the fire attack makes more sense than, as having 1 aadditional attack for lower dmg.

Dlare star gauge)
Is it even stated, that whe lose the stacks, when whe sswitch to the ice phase?
No yter i saw, had mentioned anything in that direction, that whe would lose the stacks (and no yter showed any scene, where you switched to ice, before used it up completly).

Originally Posted by Keichi

First:
Dlare star gauge)
Is it even stated, that whe lose the stacks, when whe sswitch to the ice phase?
No yter i saw, had mentioned anything in that direction, that whe would lose the stacks (and no yter showed any scene, where you switched to ice, before used it up completly).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oU829ccLRM
You can see at the 3:30 mark how the stacks get removed by going into ice phase.

Originally Posted by Keichi

MP reg)
Whe will have or normal mp reg.
Why are all people saying, that the BLM would be the only class, who would be able to regenerate the mp like every other class is doing it.

What changed is simply, that the naturaly regeneration isnt as strong as before anymore.
In exchange, is the skill regeneration even stronger and probably even faster as before. As long as whe dont have 0 Mp, is it completly meaningless, how slow the naturaly mp regeneration would be. Because: After a few ice spells, would whe have max mp ready.
And have whe very low mp, is there the other skill to strenght the mp regeneration over time. Who every other caster has to.
BLM is the caster, who has the less problems with mana regeneration. And i dont think, that it will change now.

The problem is you're having to use a few ice spells for max MP when there's no ice spells you can cast while running or while the boss is untargetable. There is no ice spell you can cast right then. It also feels bad to rely upon ice and not get to use your Flare while running through a dungeon. The Aery is a dungeon with a lot of running, cutscenes, and mobs with very low HP: Black Mage with the proposed changes is going to feel really bad in it. It is entirely likely they will be going into the last boss without full MP for basically no reason.

Umbral Soul is the easiest fix if they want to keep this current design. Some other options: Scathe, Xenoglossy/Foul, and thunder spells giving MP back, not just ice spells. Buffing Lucid Dreaming while under ice. Give Black Mage SOMETHING that takes into account that just as gaining MP is easier for BLM, spending down to 0 MP is ALSO very easy and meant to be done habitually, which means Lucid Dreaming and natural regen take far longer to pull you back up.

In the case that whe dont have ice phase activ and 0 mp, have whe the naturaly mp recovery and dreaming.
I tested it a moment ago and needed around 3-5 seconds, until i had 800 mp back and was able to cast blizard for entering ice phase with 3 umbral soul. And was regenerating some mp, while i casted the ice spell.
So, i dont think, that whe will have that much of mp problem. And in the praxis, hit whe that situation mostly, after a resurrection. Having 0 mp and be outside of ice phase in a dungeon between fights happens rarely. And than is it possible to make a small mana rest.

I dont understand, why BLM has so much worrie about there mp regeneration, when whe are the caster, who has absolut zero mp problems and the strongest recovery power, between all caster (caster and healer).
The others has only the naturaly mp regeneration and the dreaming. Even under the healers have only a few of them 1-2 skills, that increase the mp regeneration for a few %.
With the small difference, that they have lower mp cost, as Blm.

I saw a few review clips about the class changes from differently Yter (and found only 1, who mentioned the thing with the fire stack). And no one complained about mp problems for the black mage.
All of them stated, that the class feels good and would be again the winner of the class changes this time.
There is only a problem, when you completly refuse to use ice spells and the advangtes, that they bring (ice shards reduce mp cost of 3 fire spells and allows you to cast flare 2 times, its looks logical, that you would take them).

Personally, I think they should have it that using any non-fire spells in Umbral ice restores MP, but have Ice spells restore noticeably more.
Like, Scathe and Thunder restores 1000 mp, Xeno/Foul restores 1500 Mp, Blizzard restores 2000-3000, Blizzard 4 restores 4000-5000, and Ice Paradox restores all MP. That alone would make Ice Paradox have a reason in the rotation again and let them change Fire Paradox back to how it was.
I also do like making Despair give Flare stars, that alone would be a huge help for newer players who would struggle with mechanics and accidentally drop a Fire IV to many.

Originally Posted by CasterSvarog

Personally, I think they should have it that using any non-fire spells in Umbral ice restores MP, but have Ice spells restore noticeably more.
Like, Scathe and Thunder restores 1000 mp, Xeno/Foul restores 1500 Mp, Blizzard restores 2000-3000, Blizzard 4 restores 4000-5000, and Ice Paradox restores all MP. That alone would make Ice Paradox have a reason in the rotation again and let them change Fire Paradox back to how it was.
I also do like making Despair give Flare stars, that alone would be a huge help for newer players who would struggle with mechanics and accidentally drop a Fire IV to many.

That would have been a option (i esspecialy agree with Despair).
But, it looks like, as if they wanted to make the ice phase as short as possible. And removed practicly anything, that would than be useless in that form.

Something that i would have seen as the more logical way, if whe wanted the concept, that ice phase is equaly to the fire phase and not only a annoying stepping stone,would be:
Blizzard3 (and AOE version) to enter ice phase and obtain 3 Umbral soul at once. Than Blizzard 4 and Freeze for obtaining 3 ice shards.

And at last: Blizzard 1 would be there, to give us the highest amount of MP back.

One thing, that bothers me the whole time on thr black mage is, the uselessness of Blizzard 1, after you obtain Blizzard 3.
There is practicly no reason to have B1 in your bar anymore, after you have B3. While fire has uses for all 4 of its spells.
I would have some space problems. But i would like it simply from the concept, when B1 had something to do for the ice phase.
Makit it the spell, who recover the most mp, would give it the needed use in the kit.

Originally Posted by Keichi

In the case that whe dont have ice phase activ and 0 mp, have whe the naturaly mp recovery and dreaming.
I tested it a moment ago and needed around 3-5 seconds, until i had 800 mp back and was able to cast blizard for entering ice phase with 3 umbral soul. And was regenerating some mp, while i casted the ice spell.
So, i dont think, that whe will have that much of mp problem. And in the praxis, hit whe that situation mostly, after a resurrection. Having 0 mp and be outside of ice phase in a dungeon between fights happens rarely. And than is it possible to make a small mana rest.

I dont understand, why BLM has so much worrie about there mp regeneration, when whe are the caster, who has absolut zero mp problems and the strongest recovery power, between all caster (caster and healer).
The others has only the naturaly mp regeneration and the dreaming. Even under the healers have only a few of them 1-2 skills, that increase the mp regeneration for a few %.
With the small difference, that they have lower mp cost, as Blm.

I saw a few review clips about the class changes from differently Yter (and found only 1, who mentioned the thing with the fire stack). And no one complained about mp problems for the black mage.
All of them stated, that the class feels good and would be again the winner of the class changes this time.
There is only a problem, when you completly refuse to use ice spells and the advangtes, that they bring (ice shards reduce mp cost of 3 fire spells and allows you to cast flare 2 times, its looks logical, that you would take them).

None of them were really BLM mains though and that is ok. I also would have no idea on changes for other classes. EksuPlosion goes more into details on the job changes on his twitch.

The mana regeneration will probably not be a problem but rather unintuitive wihout umbral soul or with "down for the court" and dropping enochian. If the boss becomes targetable again, 3-5 seconds before you can do anything is pretty bad.
Or maybe I missed something here?

I think giving back UI Paradox and letting it recover some mana (not even maximum) would help for the complains.

Other then that. The new thunder stuff seems a bit awkward but can't say for sure. I will miss sharpcast.
The new fire finisher is quit lackluster in animation and its potencies.

What I hate the most though (and thats probably an unpopular opinion) We are mroe or less just a fire mage now. That phase is even longer and without transpose --> UI Paradox more unforgiving in emergencies in my opinion.
Where is the Black in Black mage now? I quit liked the direction of Paradox and was hoping for more Ice uses, like its own finsher to buff Despair or something but eh...