Dawntrail Ninja looks boring

[Akashii]

Let me preface this by saying that I have been playing Ninja at a raiding level since Eden's Promise in Shadowbringers. Since I picked it up I have delved deeply into the theorycrafting side of the job, and am incredibly familiar with all aspects of the job.

The Ninja that has been shown off in the Dawntrail Media Tour videos, for me and the people I know, has been incredibly disappointing. While the masses can be seen reveling that the job hasn't changed, I am displeased for the same reason. When an expansion comes around it is typically a time when your beloved job finally gets a refresh, a new coat of paint, a new set of skills that you can look forward to using. For Ninja that isn't the case. The iteration of Ninja that has been shown to us is almost identical to it's current state, and arguably identical to the iteration of Ninja we had received post patch 5.1.

There are some changes that I agree with, such as the removal of Huton as a buff and turning it's effect into a passive trait. This makes Ninja at a low level far more enjoyable as you do not have to spend one of your shiny Mudra charges on Huton for upkeep from levels 45 to 54. Instead you can spend it on Raiton, which I feel most can agree is cooler and therefore more fun. Changing Trick Attack to be an AOE is also a great change, and is one of the few additions to Ninja being added that can potentially lead to some interesting optimization later on.

[Akashii]

But I would not be making this thread and expressing my disappointment with the changes, or lack thereof, if the Ninja that has been shown to us was anywhere near what I was hoping for, and I wasn't hoping for much.

Kazematoi, or the Kunai Gauge, is exceptionally underwhelming. It's only purpose is to ensure that Armor Crush still has a function after the removal of Huton management. Despite the removal of Huton management Ninja still engages in a meaningless dance between Armor Crush and Aeolian Edge. Our core combo is bland and needs something new added to it, because as it stands it is just a boring cycle of 1-2-4, 1-2-3, 1-2-3, 1-2-4. If we simply got a new GCD or combo that wasn't strong enough to be put into buffs but strong enough that you'd want to use it out of buffs, that would be a good step in the direction to making Ninja's filler less mundane. Even something similar to Viper's Dreadwinder combo where you have a charge system on a cooldown, that isn't strong enough to be put into buffs but is stronger than your normal 1-2-3 combo. This, or something like it, would provide much needed variation to Ninja's filler.

Bhavacakra and Hellfrog Medium have both received upgrades, but unfortunately the way they have been implemented is underwhelming. Instead of upgrading Bhavacakra and Hellfrog Medium to completely new skills, instead Mug temporarily augments them into the new versions which you can only use once per two minutes. That is a fairly common trend surrounding all of Ninjas "new" kit, you only get to see it once every two minutes. The exception to this being Trick Attack's upgrade, Kunai's Bane. So not only will the job play the same as it has for the past two years at least, it will continue to look the same for 100 of every 120 seconds. I would've preferred if these were permanent upgrades instead of temporary augments that are locked behind a two minute cooldown.

Tenri Jindo is Ninja's capstone ability which can be executed after successfully performing Ten Chi Jin. When I first saw this skill I was hoping that it was a GCD, something to put in burst and potentially allow for one of our stronger skills to fall out of buffs and be used elsewhere. Instead it is an oGCD that can only be used after Ten Chi Jin, where a lot of oGCDs already are used. Meisui still exists which also provides a whole Bhavacakra, and with the addition of Tenri Jindo we now have three oGCDs directly tied to TCJ. Not to mention that Mug still gives 40 Ninki so if you have more than 5 Ninki going into your two minute window you're looking at another Bhavacakra being weaved somewhere. if Dream Within A Dream was removed there would have been room to weave this Bhavacakra after Hyosho Ranryu, but it still exists, and TCJ is weaved after Raiton so there's no room there either.

[KageTokage]

This kinda sums up why most of the DT job changes in general are boring.

Most of the jobs just got extensions to two minute cooldowns or upgrades to existing skills so the only thing they're doing differently is hitting an extra button and/or substituting a button during the burst window

[Aaramis]

To play devil's advocate, making Ninja easier is not altogether a bad thing. Some of the changes are very welcome.
Ever do main scenerio or levelling roulette where you're at level 50 or lower and no way of maintaining your Huton except for re-casting it? It sucks. Having a permanent Huton will be amazing.
AoE trick attack will give us better damage during AoE pull phases, which comprise what, 90% of most dungeons? It will improve not just our damage, but the entire party's, and give TA a purpose outside of boss burst windows.

As for making Ninja easier... ever see the numbers of people playing Reaper? There's a reason for that. It's an easy dps class.
NIN and MNK aren't seen as often because a lot of players can put out similar numbers with RPR, while having half the key presses or mental stress.

Will I miss the current NIN? Yes. But the future one doesn't look half bad either. Let's wait and see how it plays.

[GoatOfWar]

Everything looks boring in Dawntrail.
Story is looking like a beach episode, combat is an extention of EW class design but further simplified and everyone got the same new thing.
There's a hillarious amount of overlap of decline in gameplay quality between Warlords of Draenor and Endwalker.
I think 14 has peaked, and reached a stagnation point in SHB.
Endwalker just had the benefit of a worldwide pandemic, a bad WoW expansion and very big streamers trying it out. Which makes it less obvious.
All those streamers left dissatisfied with the gameplay loop, the Zodiark/Hydaelin story arc concluded and the pandemic is over.
I've seen *so* many people quit the game in the last 2 years. And general interest in Dawntrail seems kinda low.

[Equitable_Remedy]

Speaking only for myself, though I suppose I number among the OP's "masses," I could not disagree more.

Currently, NIN is one of my favorite classes from any MMO, and I've played quite a few. (I was fortunate, I think, to start playing FF14 during ShB as I don't think I would have liked the prior mudra implementation.) The flow of ShB NIN played great for me: the ebb and flow of satisfying burst windows and calmer intermissions is my jam. EW made NIN even better by dropping some things like shadowfang and adding some things like phantom kamaitachi and raiju. Love EW NIN.

Now, DT is coming with updates to current moves (some situational during burst), a new gauge for intermissions, and a new oGCD magic finisher with a sweet graphic while keeping the flow of NIN through the last two expansions. Yeah, I'm hype for that.

Sorry ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Dyvid]

They are going all in on the combo system this expansion to free up hotbars. I think they are going a little too far, but we'll have to wait and see.

[Akashii]

To play devil's advocate, making Ninja easier is not altogether a bad thing. Some of the changes are very welcome.
Ever do main scenerio or levelling roulette where you're at level 50 or lower and no way of maintaining your Huton except for re-casting it? It sucks. Having a permanent Huton will be amazing.
AoE trick attack will give us better damage during AoE pull phases, which comprise what, 90% of most dungeons? It will improve not just our damage, but the entire party's, and give TA a purpose outside of boss burst windows.

As for making Ninja easier... ever see the numbers of people playing Reaper? There's a reason for that. It's an easy dps class.
NIN and MNK aren't seen as often because a lot of players can put out similar numbers with RPR, while having half the key presses or mental stress.

Will I miss the current NIN? Yes. But the future one doesn't look half bad either. Let's wait and see how it plays.

Not once was it said that Ninja is being made easier so I don't know who you're play Devil's Advocate for. I stated that I am okay with the Huton change, I agree that is benefits low-level Ninja a lot and makes it more enjoyable. Nothing about difficulty was mentioned though. If anything, the job's difficulty isn't changing at all because the job itself is barely changing. If anything the job is going to be slightly MORE difficulty now because players will have to weave in another oGCD after TCJ, which may prove to be a challenge for those who struggle to double-weave.

Trick Attack/Kunai's Bane only affects our own damage so I don't know why you're talking like it's still a party buff. But I do agree that AOE Trick is also a nice QoL change which may lead to rotational changes in fights with two bosses. But Trick Attack will never have a purpose outside of burst windows because it itself is the start of the burst window, as by being a buff it creates the burst window.

[Ilyn]

I'm personally happy ninja isn't changing much , honestly it's like the only job that truly didn't stop evolving in its rotation till lvl90 . If it's just flashier moves and power bursts this time around I'm all for it . Having to deal with changes like at the beginning of Shb and EW and for it to be clunky and underpowered for TA's balancing issues and waiting til X.08/X.1 for major reworks for it to be even viable for hardcore content was the worst ... I basically had to unsub after the msq both times till ninja got somewhat fixed . I've prolly played like 6 different versions of NiN in the past 5 years and it's in a good place, no need to break the job again just to rebuild it . I get to go into an expansion feeling like a MotherF***'N NINJA ASSASIN and this version being the most selfish dps that it has ever been makes me happy

[Raikai]

I think the kunai gauge is more or less equal to what it replaces, not mad at it.

In fact, with AoE Trick Attack, I feel that NIN was the most fortunate of the dpsers, which in general is pretty bad. Basically Dawntrail job design boils down to 'bland follow up attacks'.