The changes to Astrologian are upsetting

[Silver-Strider]

Just want to link this article

It's an interview with Yoshi-P about job ideas that they ultimately abandoned when making new jobs. I find this part particularly hilariously sad.

“On the other hand, we could look at the example of Time Mage,” Yoshida says. “This is a job we had considered previously, but that is known for using time-related abilities such as Haste to speed up the party or Stop to stop time.” These work fantastically in the turn-based and Active Time Battle systems of past games, he remarks. “However, in an MMORPG, we are not able to stop time. And [if it could] it would kind of overpower the job. And what would be the point of a Time Mage that could not manipulate time? So we do place some importance on maintaining the legacy from the Final Fantasy franchise – but now we have fewer jobs that we can work with. So I think moving forward, we will have more original jobs for Final Fantasy 14."

Wasn't this just old AST? Stunning Enemies with Oppression + extending buffs with Time Dilation and Royal Road. No wonder AST keeps getting screwed over since even Yoshi-P is out of touch with how the job used to be themed.

[Awful]

Wasn't this just old AST? Stunning Enemies with Oppression + extending buffs with Time Dilation and Royal Road. No wonder AST keeps getting screwed over since even Yoshi-P is out of touch with how the job used to be themed.

It was and it worked wonderfully, you could extend your buffs, enhance them, spread them, prolong HoTs and buffs with Celestial Opposition. It had time mage sprinkled in its kit which really fleshed out its support role and was my go to healer until EW, if only SE built upon its old frame and kept those gameplay mechanics I think AST would be the most well designed healer in its history but sadly it's not, SE is too afraid to bring back time magic as it made AST super strong.

Edit: Forgot yes Celestial used to stun mobs as well in dungeons it was a nice little extra effect.

[AnimaAnimus]

“On the other hand, we could look at the example of Time Mage,” Yoshida says. “This is a job we had considered previously, but that is known for using time-related abilities such as Haste to speed up the party or Stop to stop time.” These work fantastically in the turn-based and Active Time Battle systems of past games, he remarks. “However, in an MMORPG, we are not able to stop time. And [if it could] it would kind of overpower the job.

Final Fantasy XI, which is also and mmorpg, would like to have a word. They had haste, slow, and a multitude of other status effects, both buffs and debuffs, and it worked just fine. They just don't want to deal with balancing around more than the single 2 minute buff window and the single dot they gave us. This is not a game breaking issue, this is a dev issue.

[BlueMageQuina]

These work fantastically in the turn-based and Active Time Battle systems of past games, he remarks. “However, in an MMORPG, we are not able to stop time. And [if it could] it would kind of overpower the job. And what would be the point of a Time Mage that could not manipulate time?.

And furthermore, we have Stop... it's just called Stun in this game and WHM uses it instead. It's funny because I remember in HW reading how they were considering giving AST something to compete with Holy but settled on giving it an oGCD stun with a cooldown so it wouldn't piss off WHMs. It would, but I'd still change to put Stop [Stun] on Gravity, Blind on Holy, Heavy on Dyskrasia, Slow on Art of War; it all seems more in line with job identity to me.

[Silver-Strider]

And furthermore, we have Stop... it's just called Stun in this game and WHM uses it instead. It's funny because I remember in HW reading how they were considering giving AST something to compete with Holy but settled on giving it an oGCD stun with a cooldown so it wouldn't piss off WHMs. It would, but I'd still change to put Stop [Stun] on Gravity, Blind on Holy, Heavy on Dyskrasia, Slow on Art of War; it all seems more in line with job identity to me.

Wouldn't a Heavy on Gravity make more sense? Like, you are literally crushing them under the weight of gravity

[BlueMageQuina]

Wouldn't a Heavy on Gravity make more sense? Like, you are literally crushing them under the weight of gravity

I think that makes sense too for the spell itself because Gravity. For the job, I think the Stun makes sense as well because time.

[Tint]

And furthermore, we have Stop... it's just called Stun in this game and WHM uses it instead. It's funny because I remember in HW reading how they were considering giving AST something to compete with Holy but settled on giving it an oGCD stun with a cooldown so it wouldn't piss off WHMs. It would, but I'd still change to put Stop [Stun] on Gravity, Blind on Holy, Heavy on Dyskrasia, Slow on Art of War; it all seems more in line with job identity to me.

The stun on Holy is necessary because WHM does not have many off-GCD heals. While other healers can do AoE damage with GCDs and still heal the tank with off-GCDs WHM would be locked into spamming GCD heals and their damage would go downhill.

[BlueMageQuina]

The stun on Holy is necessary because WHM does not have many off-GCD heals. While other healers can do AoE damage with GCDs and still heal the tank with off-GCDs WHM would be locked into spamming GCD heals and their damage would go downhill.

Sorry, for misleading you with my rambling about lore as opposed to mechanics. My point was more that Stop already exists and we just call it Stun. That's all. I can understand the purpose of Stun on WHM's Holy and why other healers don't have it.

[AstreMcClain]

I liked Heavensward AST then it changed and I gradually got more sad over the state of it as it became more and more homogenized. They took a good step in the right direction with uniqueness, but with the little potency compared to the OGC leaves people stating only two of the cards are good, but they can't make them too strong otherwi---- HAHAHAHAHA.

No, that is the problem- the main identity is the cards, the cards should be RNG and Almost Just as strong as the OGC's, not In Astral and Umbral sets with three different play buttons. EndWalker AST is great the only things that COULD make it better is Card uniqueness with a stronger potency for the effects with an Emphasis on MORE on the cards AND Sleeve Draw back for that Guaranteed Three Seals.

SE, retrain your team to listen to feedback.

[Ramiee]

“On the other hand, we could look at the example of Time Mage,” Yoshida says. “This is a job we had considered previously, but that is known for using time-related abilities such as Haste to speed up the party or Stop to stop time.” These work fantastically in the turn-based and Active Time Battle systems of past games, he remarks. “However, in an MMORPG, we are not able to stop time. And [if it could] it would kind of overpower the job. And what would be the point of a Time Mage that could not manipulate time?

What makes this funnier is WoW new healer and buffer spec in dragonflight was a time mage basically. The whole healing theme was based around reversing the damage dealt and charging heals over time and the buffing spec was all about giving power from other timelines to the person you're buffing.
Sure you can fully stop time but you can obviously have thematic moves about it, I'd argue Earthly Star is an example of a time mage healer move because it empowers over time.