Thread: 7.0 SMN First Impressions

I'm not going to lie, after the initial watch through of the job actions trailer I'm alright with what's getting added in 7.0. They said they weren't overhauling any jobs and almost all are basically the same but with an added few skills, nothing terribly major.

Plus, as a SMN main since 2.0 it's nice to have an expac where we actually just straight up GAIN abilities instead of having them removed or reworked entirely. (Tbf we did gain in HW but every expac after was both gain and loss, RIP aethertrail attunement)

Originally Posted by ThorneDynasty

I'd like the people who gaslighted us with the "but it's a good foundation for future improvements" excuse during 6.0 release to raise up their hands.

I mean, to be fair, it was and still is a good foundation. But they need to actually build on it! lol

The more I think on it, the more I wonder if they aren’t already planning for something very similar to Epikairekakia’s idea down the road… it would make the most sense! (I know, silly me, expecting things to make sense!) But for all intents and purposes, Solar Bahamut is Hydaelyn Bahamut. Just, for the love of the Twelve, give us Levi-Shiva-Ramuh before giving us Zodiark Bahamut! Giving us more demis isn’t satisfying when the rotation in between remains exactly the same.

Astral and Umbral primals is the lowest hanging fruit but they still won't grab it, all Summoner really needs is 3 more complementary legos and a button to switch between but no "Mom Bahamut, look forward to it."

They could even keep Summoner as the easy caster without making the skill floor and ceiling touch.

Since this thread has gained front-page traction now and replaced one of the others, I'll just repeat-again my response from the others, because... "even years later, I still honestly have no idea how SE actually gathers and transmits feedback, nor how they decide which Threads to 'listen to' or 'read', so at this point, I'm just taking the 'spray-and-pray' approach."

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Regarding the presented 7.0 Summoner changes in the Media Tour build, and speaking as a longtime player and fan of the Summoner Job — not just in FFXIV, but across Final Fantasy games in general...

Solar Bahamut

Lorewise and conceptually, I don't object to the idea of the WOL finally creating their own unique Summon, seemingly as a fusion of Hydaelyn / Solar / Crystal concepts and the "purified" concept of the "true", pre-Allagan Bahamut, as well as being an obvious contrast to the twisted "Lunar Bahamut" that was created by Fandaniel.

I do, however, also find it "boring" to have Yet Another Bahamut — I do not enjoy being the "Bahamut Job", compared to the more classical identity of FF Summoner as the "Mythical Pokémon Collector".

The excitement for me about Summoner was always seeking, finding, and discovering strange new creatures and beings to Summon... not obsessively fixating-upon one single Dragon.

I would have personally been far more interested in seeing an addition such as Odin, Alexander, the Warring Triad, Zodiark, or... basically anything that's not Bahamut.

So, I am developing severe "BAHAMUT FATIGUE". After having endless "Bahamut-ness" shoved down Summoner's throat since Heavensward, Bahamut has stopped being "cool" to me, and started to become "exhausting". I am tired of Bahamut and Dragons as Summoner, there is a reason that I'm not playing Dragoon, I don't care about the First Brood / Dragons that-much.

Mechanically, I also think that it is very unexciting to simply add a ghostly / "fetal dragon" palette-swap of the generic "1-minute-burst-phase" model.

However, I am aware that there was a conscious design decision for the 7.0 design-period to avoid disrupting the current "rotational formulas". Therefore, I would say that my greater disappointment — if I "can't have everything" — is the choice of the new "burst-phase Summon", rather than the mechanic itself.

In other words... if we were being given something like, "Demi-Bahamut / Demi-Phoenix, but with Alexander Graphics"... then, I would be much less frustrated, because at least then I would be able to feel like I'm still becoming "more of a Summoner", fantasy-wise.

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Lack of Leviathan, Ramuh, and Shiva

I find this extremely disappointing — as in, "there are no words in the English language that sufficiently and accurately convey the extent of the disappointment that I felt upon seeing the confirmation of the Summoner Tooltips and Graphics from the 7.0 Media Tour videos and coverage".

I am playing a Final Fantasy Summoner...

I want to Summon things...

...That is what I do, as FF Summoner — I locate and collect the "Summonable Beings", and then I Summon them.

Just like Blue Mage does not want to have nothing in its Spellbook but 50 different "First Brood of Midgardsormr" Skills, right?

No, of course not, because that would be a Dragoon.

Instead, a Blue Mage wants to collect a wide variety of Monster Skills, from a wide variety of different classic Final Fantasy creatures...

...Well, it's the same for Summoner. I want to collect a wide variety of Summons... not repeat the same tiny-set ad-nauseum.

...I honestly struggle to believe that we're going to reach Summoner Level 100, and yet, still not have as much variety in our Summons as that level 70 Allagan computer from the Stormblood Job Quests.

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Lack of rotational development

Again, I understand that this is a conscious design decision for the 7.x period.

However, I am nonetheless disappointed that Summoner's overall rotational flow and structure will be remaining as "automated" and simplistic in 7.0 as it has been during the 6.x period.

I do not find the current Summoner model satisfying to repeat in prolonged use, and it makes me feel strangely "tired" of playing Summoner very quickly each time that I do... because, it feels like there is barely anything to really "learn" or "do", and the design is unusually and conspicuously "repetitive-feeling" to me, even amongst FFXIV Jobs.

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Continued development of Energy Drain, Ruin, and Fester

I feel that the 6.0 redesign of Summoner rendered Energy Drain, Ruin, and Fester into thematically-incongruous and inappropriate "vestigial organs", which should be redesigned and reflavoured to better-fit the new Summoner identity.

I am disappointed to see that we're instead going to receive "Direct Upgrade Fester".

To me, this feels uninspired, and unexciting.

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Concern about Searing Flash in less-organised content

I think that there is a lot of potential for annoyance or frustration if multiple Summoners end-up placed into the same Party by, eg, Duty Finder, or just practical-circumstances (for example, filling an Extreme Trial Farm Party, where LB generation isn't really important).

Basically, by forcing 2-Minute Party Buffs, which cannot be stacked, to become "flip-over actions", it places multiple Summoners in an awkward situation wherein they must choose between either reducing their personal damage output, or reducing Party damage output (by not staggering-out their Searing Light casts with the other Summoner(s) ).

This feels "over-designed" for exclusively Savage and other tightly-controlled Party compositions, and seems to ignore how a vast portion of the game's content ends-up working-out in actual practise (ie, having multiples of the same Job inside the same Party).

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I have further thoughts about the disappointment with the choice of Solar Bahamut as the only new Summon, but I think that it's too much to post inside the flow of a preexisting, ongoing thread.

So, in case this is the thread that SE is actually reading-information from (just let me have this fantasy, okay), I'll just link to that separate post, instead:

Implementing Leviathan, Ramuh, and Shiva as simplistic "Aesthetic Swaps"

I feel like Endwalker's Summoner managed to, at least superficially, capture more truly the concept of a Summoner, but the additions in Dawntrail don't enhance or build on that concept and that is my issue with it.

It feels like now that the developers have arrived at a safe place with Summoner, they're either afraid to, or incapable of taking it to the next level conceptually or even from a gameplay standpoint.

I 'member back when EW first came out, people were going on and on about how the new Summoner was just a base for them to build on and all kinds of theorizing on what primals they would add. And all we ended up getting was a bahamut skin.

Originally Posted by WeakestZenosEnjoyer

Astral and Umbral primals is the lowest hanging fruit but they still won't grab it, all Summoner really needs is 3 more complementary legos and a button to switch between but no "Mom Bahamut, look forward to it."

They could even keep Summoner as the easy caster without making the skill floor and ceiling touch.

I love this idea. Could do kind of like BLM where you have an Astral and Umbral stance that you can switch back and forth between. The Summons could even be used to grant party buffs or debuffs to enemies that correspond with that element (i.e. an extra ability like a movement speed buff in Garuda, shields in Titan, AOE slow for Shiva, etc.). Just... something else to do.