/r/ffxivdiscussion: A stricter ilvl sync is the solution to casual content being easy

[LyraShu]

Adding to the pile here, I would be majorly for this. As a newer player in November, I was able to blitz through content as a SMN then SGE and basically play like I was a roided DPS the entire time. Mechanics? Who cares, nothing will kill me and I can pretty much 2 hit things. The "hardest" content in the MSQ was when they had you play as a side character with all of your nice buffs taken away.

AND THEN, once you get max level and feel like you know a thing or two, mechanics and whatnot start to catch up to you. I seriously went the ENTIRE game without casting Esuna once as a SGE. There ARE dungeons that would have made me learn about it before getting to end game dungeons to cause wipes to finally learn about the importance of it, but nope I had wiped all of those out as a solo healer before those mechanics had a chance to populate. Now, I am a casual player that likes to game, so it was completely on ME that I did not know the importance of my ability, but tbh I figured it was a dead ability because it just was never needed.

I guess long and short, I feel like making things a bit more "difficult" so people are actually going through mechanics is fun and good. PLUS, it means they learn before getting to some stupid hard raid that you wipe after an hour of progging due to being a stupid sprout >.> #tooootallynotme

[Ardeth]

On the opposite spectrum, I hate scaling. Especially overscaling. Wow has this problem where you never feel strong as a character and you always feel weak until you're BiS which happens to so very few people it makes people apathetic because no matter what they do they will always be weak.

So for me, I'd rather go the other way. Unfortunately, players will meta the fun out of that, but it would be fun.

[Erzaa]

You're being obtuse. I've made it clear that the situation we are talking about within FFXIV is grouping. The actual mmo aspect of the game.

No, I'm not. You're making arguments in bad faith and moving goalposts to suit you, and I'm using those against you. That's the very opposite of obtuse.

A seasoned pianist doesn't progress or even retain their level of skill by always playing Mary had a Little Lamb...

You clearly understand this, and yet your argument is that all players must repeat "Mary had a Little Lamb" at the same tempo every single time, and that's somehow progress for them.

And it is. It is easier for you because now you know the fight. Why should the fight becomes easier by punishing you less for screwing up? Why should the players new to the fight be punished less for screwing up? What exactly is wrong with making the playing field even for all those who are participating?

And here we come to the crux of the problem. Your argument is that fight knowledge and knowing the mechanics is all that matters. And that's where some players will agree with you and other players will disagree with you. The fact is, if all that mattered was knowing the mechanics, then the gear and XP would be irrelevant, they're unnecessary. Indeed, alot of games go that route, and just expect you to win by knowledge and skill expression. FFXIV isn't one of them. It's fine if you feel it should, and it's just as fine for other players to tell you they disagree with you.

You're missing the point. The idea is to keep the content with the same intended difficulty when it was released. This isn't about a subjective challenge level based on player skill levels. This is about keeping the set challenge level consistent, and not allowing power creeping to dumb down the content.

I didn't miss your point at all. Keeping the intended difficulty for players who're new, and are just learning the fight now, makes sense. The problem arises, when you expect players who've done this fight countless times to not be allowed to speed up; for all their progress, all their abilities gained, all the experience they've gathered, all the better tools at their disposal to not matter.

"I'm rubber, you're glue" rebuttals are childish. Instead try to understand why I say you're being selfish instead of getting offended by it.

Wasn't offended, not sure where you got that interpretation. I'm merely calling you out, you have a tendency to argue in bad faith and be rude to people who disagree with you.

This quote start's off with "I'm", "I'm being entertained." What about the other players in your group? In this thread alone it should easy for you to identify which posters are not happy with the same entertainment you're getting.

Moving the goalposts yet again. No, I answered your question, "What are you doing? Why don't you go read a book or watch a movie?". Simple as that.

They are not as entertained as you, and I am thinking about others, including you. This is why I am not asking for the content to be more difficult than intended. Only for it to be brought back to that level. This is not unreasonable, or unfair to anyone.

It's unfair to those players who want to feel their progress, their additional power, the results of their hard work and accomplishments. And I never claimed you wanted to make the content more difficult than intended, nor did I ever think that.

You want the content to be as difficult as it was at release, with the lowest possible gear, so that mechanics aren't skipped due to power creep. What makes you think I don't understand what we're talking about?

I'm starting to wonder if you understand what progression is.

Yes, I'm fully aware of what it is, because your next paragraph explains it exactly what I said it was.

It occurs when you overcome an obstacle/objective or anything in that matter that prevents further development, and in this process, you become more developed or honed. In an RPG, better and stronger gear is to prep you for the next challenge in order to continue your progression. Yes, as a consequence of obtaining more power, that which is behind you has become weaker/easier.

Thank you. Which is why I corrected you the first time, when you replied to the poster with misinformation. Better and stronger gear, are the tools of your trade. If you're just starting out drawing, all you need is a 50 cent pencil from the store. As you improve (XP), you'll move on to better pencils, paints, brushes etc. (Gear). These tools exist as an extension of your improvement, your mastery, and make the next challenge possible and the previous challenge easier. That's just how things work.

Once you've mastered your craft, you could still pick up that 50 cent pencil and possibly create something wonderful, but you'd be making it just a little harder for yourself, than if you used your best tools (lower your gear to the min ilvl and queue for the fight).

What I am saying is that this isn't what should make a player feel more powerful. This is a false sense of power. In order to obtain a true sense of power, you must surpass that which provides resistance. What players are doing now is akin to being an adult and schooling a bunch of nine-year olds at basketball.

Again, their knowledge of the fight already accomplishes this. There is no reason for them to be punished less than the next player for screwing up. If they truly are better than the sprout, then they shouldn't be getting hit by avoidable damage. They should know how to resolve the mechanics. However, they most certainly should receive the same damage from the boss's attacks. This is the last time I am going to repeat this.

That's your opinion and others disagree with you. Why is it a false sense of power? Because you want everyone to always do mechanics and know the fight and nothing else?

For one, alot of players may know the mechanics and still choose to stand in them, because they know that the sum of their accomplishments now allows them to completely ignore that mechanic and they like it that way.

Second, if FFXIV went entirely designed by your proposal, then what use does the XP gain and gear have in the game then? What's it good for? Petition SE to remove XP and gear entirely from the game, turn all gear into glams, and design every fight based off your base stats, how much damage your abilities do and the increasingly faster and harder dances as we progress through the content and expansions. Then, every fight will always be at its intended difficulty.

And there are games that are designed around that concept. RPGs do not and have never been designed around that concept. Spinning things like FF isn't an RPG, it's this or it's that, to suit your argument, isn't going to change that.

Not even one time have I made this suggestion. This is your misunderstanding of what it is I am actually proposing. What this game does is allows a ridiculous advantage to players whose level is synced with the duty they are participating in. You're not level 90 when your synced to lv 50 content. You are level 50, and very likely have an asinine advantage over the players who are there for their first time because of power creep. What I am suggesting is the same treatment they have given to Endsinger in this expansion, except all across the board. Every trial. Every raid. The only content that really works like this now are leveling dungeons, and this isn't a problem for anyone.

You're level synced down and have your abilities removed, ergo you are intentionally being weakened. This doesn't feel good to alot of players who feel like they're being punished for progressing, and their accomplishments are being diminished. You may not feel that way, but others do, and the additional gear at least allows them to feel that sense of power they feel they should have. If you need to understand why this exists, I refer you back to my previous post around a happy middle ground to keep queues filled. I see no reason to repeat myself.

I've already answered this. Multiple times now. You simply level the playing field. That's it.

They are leveling the playing field. You're being synced down and lose access to most of your abilities. You, specifically you, and perhaps some other players may feel it's not enough, but again, that's an opinion. They've already leveled the playing field.

And the dev team are not obligated to stroke egos

Unless it's to stroke your ego and design the game in a way you want, ignoring what others might want, yes?

Roulettes do not exist to progress players who have already surmounted those challenges. They exist to fill queues for the game's content, and they incentivize players to run them with rewards such as tomes, XP, gil, quest items, etc. They are there to help other players progress through the game who have yet to meet these challenges. At any given time, you can queue up for content sufficient for your level and ilv in order to flex the power you have obtained to that point, but when you are participating in synced content, there is absolutely no reason why you should have an advantage over those who are there with you. Knowledge is your advantage. Use it to help the other players lacking it.

Never once did I make this claim, perhaps you should reread my post, and argue the points I made, not the points you feel I made.

I really, really hope you can come to understand the futility in this suggestion someday.

I already know this suggestion is futile. It's called sarcasm. Because I already know players would rather alter the way the game works and limit others, instead of using the tools they already possess which would allow them to get what they want now.

Case in point, some players enjoy the way the current level sync works, as it allows them to feel powerful, or just quickly run through their roulettes, and others would rather play every duty at its intended difficulty on release. As it stands now, both camps can get what they want, but one camp would like to set limits on the other camp.

And make no mistake, the moment SE theoretically implemented your suggestions, there'd be a whole new round of complaints on the forums from players who feel now roulettes would take too long.

And let me be clear here, because I don't feel you understand my point at all. I've no dog in this fight. Whatever happens, happens. Whichever solution SE might decide to go with, I don't personally care. Stricter ilvl sync, things remain as is, some entirely different solution I can't think of? I don't care. This entire conversation started because you made a fallacious response to a poster who made a valid counterpoint.

[Reinha]

Even if they do nothing else, for the love of gods,

SYNC THE ITEM LEVEL IN ALL ROULETTE DUNGEONS, TRIALS AND RAIDS.

It should be capped to the maximum item level that was available the day the dungeon was released. If people cleared it on the patch it was released in, they can clear it again. This would take like 15 minutes to implement because the sync system exists already.

[Kuroka]

Even if they do nothing else, for the love of gods,

SYNC THE ITEM LEVEL IN ALL ROULETTE DUNGEONS, TRIALS AND RAIDS.

It should be capped to the maximum item level that was available the day the dungeon was released. If people cleared it on the patch it was released in, they can clear it again. This would take like 15 minutes to implement because the sync system exists already.

Well yes but its a bit more then that, as our stats and skills got changed a lot...

[Mergood]

I was going to do an entire write up on this but I'm glad I found this thread. I'm not glad there's limited responses though

I'm extremely upset how easy alliance raids have gotten as each expansion rolls by because of power creep and weird ilvl sync. Getting through bosses without even achieving a level 2 limit break, or half of the mechanics is just...boring. Perhaps some people want "ez" mode EXP but the spirit of raiding, teamwork, and comradery is dissipating with the lack of difficulty after 10 more levels and new sets of stronger gear. It's more upsetting knowing that, unless there are substantial changes to the system, some may never get to experience the raid as intended again. I'm not saying each alliance raid has to be a 45 minute slog, but at the very least we should be able to see the raid "in full".

I think Bozja is a great example of difficulty/risk/reward. The raids are consistently challenging no matter what gear you bring to the table. People WILL die, mechanics will be missed, and occasional wipes will happen. Isn't that all apart of the fun? Working together to achieve a greater goal and overcome adversity?

Seeing how these forums are always flooded with excellent QOL pain points but nothing comes out of them, I fear alliance raids will be all but another way to just earn tomestones with no actual substance behind it.

[LilaIronman]

Okay but I also want all my skills when synced down, doing a min ilvl sastasha with no aoe and only physick or broil 1 is not fun

[FudoMyoo]

/cringe ilvl70 for LOTA

Be careful what you wish for. lol

[lolnotacat]

ilvl sync will only solve part of the problem. Older content was designed with a different ethos in mind. For example; up until (through?) Stormblood many encounters were designed with much less healer damage because they had Cleric Stance. Healing was a bit spicier than it is now and until your group had a fight comfortably on farm, spending a GCD to start DPSing (and another to swap back to healing) was very dangerous. Most healers back then would stay in healer stance so they could quickly react to unexpected damage.

I'd love for old fights to be relevant again, but they'd have to be entirely re-tuned.

[hydralus]

The fights are boring as-is and you want them to take even longer?