Please focus on giving console players more hotbar space, instead of removing actions

[Jijifli]

Nono, its not about APM. Its specifically about the number of actions required in the burst phases. Specifically, 3 Kaitens were required in the opener, along with the other shintens and w/e, vs 2 in 5.x.



Missing one kaiten killed your opener, vs a shinten drifting slightly out was much less of an impact.

Missing a fire 4 kills BLM's opener too, but I don't think we're patching out fire 4 in response.

If a NIN does a mudra wrong that murders their opener too. I don't see them removing jutsu's from it (if anything there's a new one for aoe openers).

RPR forgot Soulsow? Rip that opener too, but that didn't seem to be removed or auto applied.

I'm not seeing where you point is, because "botching your opener" is something any job can manage by accident. If it's about the amount of presses NIN is covering it too very easily with all that jutsu work going on. You note 3 kaitens, when NIN has to do 4 mudra lines (The two basic charges, the 70 skill, and the kassatsu reset). But if we responded by deleting Mudras like this line of argument is for, NIN loses what makes it NIN.

[Yenzelle]

I have a keyboard and mouse and I have not been able to find a way to reach all the keys I need to. I've been shopping for keyboards with more tightly packed keys (to no avail so far... recommendations welcome) because sometimes it hurts my hands big time.
I REALLY want there to be LESS skills. Why does my healer need a bunch of nearly identical instant group heals on different buttons? Why not one with multi charges so I don't have to have hand pain to play?

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Missing a fire 4 kills BLM's opener too, but I don't think we're patching out fire 4 in response.

If a NIN does a mudra wrong that murders their opener too. I don't see them removing jutsu's from it (if anything there's a new one for aoe openers).

RPR forgot Soulsow? Rip that opener too, but that didn't seem to be removed or auto applied.

I'm not seeing where you point is, because "botching your opener" is something any job can manage by accident. If it's about the amount of presses NIN is covering it too very easily with all that jutsu work going on. You note 3 kaitens, when NIN has to do 4 mudra lines (The two basic charges, the 70 skill, and the kassatsu reset). But if we responded by deleting Mudras like this line of argument is for, NIN loses what makes it NIN.

Yeah, and everything you mentioned is a gcd. Kaiten is not.

It was also only ever used to modify the iaijutsu. It was a pointless skill that had zero depth. Kenki guage wasn't ruined because of that, it was the drop of guren and senai from 50 to 25 that made Kenki brainless.

And it's not like I'm arguing this way because I got better at the job when it was simplified. My performance overall is actually worse. I was best when SAM was at its jankiest in 4.x, then 5.x, and my lowest performance is now, when it's "easy".

[Jijifli]

Yeah, and everything you mentioned is a gcd. Kaiten is not.

It was also only ever used to modify the iaijutsu. It was a pointless skill that had zero depth. Kenki guage wasn't ruined because of that, it was the drop of guren and senai from 50 to 25 that made Kenki brainless.

Every OGCD exists to hide the slow GCD from you in the moment, so tbf they're all equally pointless. You could just bake any OGCD that does damage's potency into the rotation. But fine, my examples were all GCD's, but partially so because with DT a lot of the OGCD examples are also being cut (Like DRK summon being free so it's now the bloodspiller gauge, or gauge builders being made free so you can't accidentally overcap).

If I had to try and give OGCD's though some can be a bit awkward, specifically if that OGCD provides a buff you murder EVERYONE'S opener if you use it incorrectly, which is arguably worse (and much more common).

And either way, my examples despite being GCD still are relevent, specially NIN's since one of the brought up points is about APM happening at the start, while NIN suffers from the highest APM in the game even before SAM changes. It feels, to me at least, Kaiten was a specific target because Square realized having Shoha 1 available for only 2 levels was incredibly awkward and would likely confuse players leveling the job, vs removing an entire ability that was deemed irrelevant because you "only press it before Iaijutsu" despite, well, that actually being something unique about an OGCD for once, instead of just being a separate number for the sake of it.

Certainly for me shot down my dopamine when playing it, which caused the same result you note yourself, I started playing it worse, because it stopped being fun.

[deep_amok]

It's definitely valid to not want certain skills to go away, but (as a PS5 player) I'm more in favor of consolidation than expansion. It's strange that nobody's mentioned this (maybe I'm just dumb lol) but it's not just about room for job/role actions; what about inventory, mount, emotes (not individual emotes, mind you), limit break, teleport/return, sprint, etc? I really enjoy being able to assign buttons like these to my hotbars, but if I want to level my SCH to 100 I'm going to have to get rid of a fair amount of these buttons, reorganize a lot, and rely on navigating through "Actions & Traits" instead, which I feel that's a little unfair to controller players. I'm not saying we shouldn't expect to have to change our hotbars in new expansions. Again, I'm just more in favor of consolidation than expansion.

[angelar_]

No. Certain classes already have insane unworkable button bloat (all attacks, so RPR / VPR.) We don't need more buttons, we need less buttons that waste space repeating the same idea or doing the exact same thing so that better buttons can be made.

[Nihility]

I don't get this desire for massive amounts of skills
the most "fun to play" MMO's I've experienced have all been like 10-12 skill buttons at most.
This game is getting carried on the battle designs but I'd go as far as to say a lot of jobs are maybe up to twice as many skills as needed to be fun.

[CaedemSanguis]

There's no need for more buttons

WoW have a 3rd of FF14 buttons and rotations are harder

Viper has less buttons than DRG, he's harder than DRG

[Silver-Strider]

I don't care one way or another about the number of buttons I have. I care if a button has a purpose within the toolkit that makes it worth a damn to use.

[angienessyo]

There's no need for more buttons

WoW have a 3rd of FF14 buttons and rotations are harder

Viper has less buttons than DRG, he's harder than DRG

Agreed. While there are classes/specs in WoW that have like, a billion buttons, that doesn't necessarily make them hard or fun, just busy. (and one of the worst offenders, Brewmaster monk, is getting a much needed reduction in button bloat) Arcane mage as far as I know is considered one of the hardest specs to play and it's not all that many buttons. Probably a similar button count to a lot of dps jobs in FF14. Havoc demon hunter is very few buttons, has a very simple rotation but playing it well can be challenging because all its difficulty is rolled up into how well you can position your character/use your movement tools to do optimal dps without dying. I mostly play fury warrior which is basically a 2-3 button rotation that's super easy but fun because it's an extremely high APM spec.