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  1. #1
    Player
    DizzyAlyx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    10
    Character
    Rubel Salamar
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 100

    June Benchmark feedback - Miqo'te M dead eyes

    The new benchmark is definitely an improvement! There's just one little tweak that I don't think is quite right yet. In the April benchmark, my own character had one of the worst cases of the dead eyes that people brought up:
    My character does have pretty narrow eyes, but that's never been an issue before, and his eyes are plenty expressive in-game currently. Always has been.


    Below is an edit I made during the first benchmark where I thought it'd look better if they put the shine back in, and possibly pull his eyelids up ever so slightly


    New benchmark:

    as well as the same shot from before side by side, old first, new second


    Its slightly better. But compared to the artificial shine that has been put in for other characters, mine still doesnt have it. He seems to still only have the realistic shine, albeit slightly improved. My face is face 4 eye 3, though I dont know if this is exclusive to my characters face and feature combo or whether its more general with Male Miqo'te

    Edit to add:

    I can see the shine when I look at my character from a downward angle, perhaps it just needs a little more rebalancing?
    (6)
    Last edited by DizzyAlyx; 06-03-2024 at 10:33 PM.

  2. #2
    Player
    Iscah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    14,032
    Character
    Aurelie Moonsong
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 90
    There has always been a weird visual trickery going on with male Miqo'te eyes, where there's a gap between the visible eye and the eyelid that you assume is shadow but on closer inspection is actually blank.



    The upgrade has tried to obscure this by adding dark makeup to the eye and the lower edge of the eyelid so it all blurs together, but the end result is that it looks blurry, and that characters are wearing makeup where they weren't before.

    I suspect that what actually needs to happen to make them look "right" in the new graphics is to fill that blank space with the rest of the visible eye that you naturally assume is there, and use either permanent shadowing or get the right amount of eyelashes to create the same impression as before.

    I made this comparison a while back of (1) actual eye shape in the current game, (2) how it would look if you "made the illusion real" and filled in the rest of the eye and (3) how it actually looks in the benchmark.

    (under a cut because the image came out quite big)


    As a test, I also posted the full version of the altered image by itself to a group chat, and nobody could immediately identify what I had changed in the image.

    Admittedly I may have inadvertently exaggerated the difference between game and benchmark because it's impossible to pick that vibrant red shade for a playable character, but you can still see that the shape is so changed from what it currently is.
    (4)
    Last edited by Iscah; 06-03-2024 at 11:10 PM.

  3. #3
    Player
    Larirawiel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Aldrassil
    Posts
    2,498
    Character
    Larirawiel Caennalys
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    The eyes are not dead. Now they look more realistic and do not reflect an invisible lamp 1 m in front of you.





    Cheers
    (1)

  4. #4
    Player
    Supersnow845's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    6,372
    Character
    Andreas Cestelle
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Larirawiel View Post
    The eyes are not dead. Now they look more realistic and do not reflect an invisible lamp 1 m in front of you.





    Cheers
    In OP’s example besides the final photo where he is looking from the bottom he 100% looks blank and dopey eyed. Like he is looking with unfocused half closed eyes

    The image with the natural reflection looking from below looks rather natural though
    (10)

  5. #5
    Player
    cutestfox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2024
    Posts
    191
    Character
    Cutest Fox
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Supersnow845 View Post
    In OP’s example besides the final photo where he is looking from the bottom he 100% looks blank and dopey eyed. Like he is looking with unfocused half closed eyes

    The image with the natural reflection looking from below looks rather natural though
    This. The eyes look dopey, dead, not juicy, not glossy, not like a real eyeball, dry like cardboard and most importantly not better
    (6)

  6. #6
    Player
    BKNTD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Posts
    5
    Character
    Deucalion Thalas
    World
    Raiden
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 90
    Took pictures of my main male 4 miqo in the new Benchmark as well as the EW Benchmark for a crude comparison. I wanted to be excited for the update, but he looks atrocious.

    EW Benchmark

    New DT Benchmark


    There's something so uncanny about him now with those dopey eyes and for some reason he's now smiling like Joker as well??
    I looked at my alts in the Benchmark and they all look more or less fine. Definitely better than in the 1.0 Benchmark. Meanwhile this guy looks absolutely high or possessed and it makes me disappointed they waited till last minute to present us with this.
    (7)

  7. #7
    Player
    DizzyAlyx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    10
    Character
    Rubel Salamar
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Iscah View Post
    There has always been a weird visual trickery going on with male Miqo'te eyes, where there's a gap between the visible eye and the eyelid that you assume is shadow but on closer inspection is actually blank.

    The upgrade has tried to obscure this by adding dark makeup to the eye and the lower edge of the eyelid so it all blurs together, but the end result is that it looks blurry, and that characters are wearing makeup where they weren't before.
    This is really interesting, It could be when they decided to fill in that empty space, the decision to fill it with the eyelashes only gave us a harsh black where there was more of a gradient before. Doing it this way lost us some of the perceived space, hence the droopy look. Thanks for the reply!

    Quote Originally Posted by Supersnow845 View Post
    In OP’s example besides the final photo where he is looking from the bottom he 100% looks blank and dopey eyed. Like he is looking with unfocused half closed eyes

    The image with the natural reflection looking from below looks rather natural though
    Quote Originally Posted by cutestfox View Post
    This. The eyes look dopey, dead, not juicy, not glossy, not like a real eyeball, dry like cardboard and most importantly not better
    Vindicated ahahah. I really glad it wasn't just me that thought so, thank you for the replies!
    (2)

  8. #8
    Player
    Supersnow845's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    6,372
    Character
    Andreas Cestelle
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Yeah it seems to be 2 things going on at the same time

    Male miqote’s propensity to always be looking slightly down because of their posture means it’s harder to see the natural reflection of the light in their eyes and it over pronounces the “makeup” look iscah explained as being a way to hide the fact they currently functionally just have holes in their eyes

    Then they have this weird upwards curve on their lips that gives them a “dopey” esque smile

    Remove the first but keep the second and you just end up with them looking excessively happy, remove the second but not the first you go back to benchmark 1’s weird dead eye problem and keep both of them and they look almost high or just (and I know I’m using this word a lot) dopey

    None of these three options fit the design of face 4
    (4)

  9. #9
    Player
    DizzyAlyx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    10
    Character
    Rubel Salamar
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by BKNTD View Post
    Took pictures of my main male 4 miqo in the new Benchmark as well as the EW Benchmark for a crude comparison. I wanted to be excited for the update, but he looks atrocious.

    There's something so uncanny about him now with those dopey eyes and for some reason he's now smiling like Joker as well??
    I looked at my alts in the Benchmark and they all look more or less fine. Definitely better than in the 1.0 Benchmark. Meanwhile this guy looks absolutely high or possessed and it makes me disappointed they waited till last minute to present us with this.
    Oh my goodness! I see that your character clearly has the same eye problem, but I suddenly feel a lot better about mine when looking at that smile yours has, what on earth. I think the mouth and lips overall look good, but the corners of his mouth seem to have been pulled up, or at least appear that way because of the lighting? I hope that gets fixed for both of our sakes. Considering we had the EW benchmark 6 months in advance, they really left this one to the last minute, considering how big and important an update this is, they should have given themselves more time, I agree

    Quote Originally Posted by Supersnow845 View Post

    Male miqote’s propensity to always be looking slightly down because of their posture means it’s harder to see the natural reflection of the light in their eyes and it over pronounces the “makeup” look iscah explained as being a way to hide the fact they currently functionally just have holes in their eyes
    This is a really good point, I wonder if they did a general edit in an "apply to all" kind of way that they should have checked and readjusted for individual races/sex/face
    (3)
    Last edited by DizzyAlyx; 06-04-2024 at 12:07 AM.

  10. #10
    Player
    Taliriah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2021
    Posts
    334
    Character
    Makoto Hinata
    World
    Louisoix
    Main Class
    Viper Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Supersnow845 View Post
    In OP’s example besides the final photo where he is looking from the bottom he 100% looks blank and dopey eyed. Like he is looking with unfocused half closed eyes
    So? You can easily make anyone irl look super weird by taking pictures of them at random times. Looking for every angle of every frame in every lighting condition to look perfect is absurd.
    (5)

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