Updated benchmark

[Cheapshot]

is it just me that thinks they've dramatically reduced the differences for the miqo'te faces?

It's not just you. They've really homogenized a lot of the features across the board. Sometimes that happens when you increase polycount and don't do manual fine adjustment to the mesh with the original shapes as a guide afterwards. I don't know if that's what happened here, but at any rate, everything is much flatter and smoother and smaller and less defined. Unique characteristics have been lost. I really think they need to spend more time restoring the original features. Load in the original meshes as a transparent guide and try to match the profiles and lines better. Things like that missing lip gap have to return. They can't get this wrong. People still resent what happened with WoW.

Why do I care, because there are litterally people threatening to quit over minute details. I care because I hopped in a post expecting to see all sorts of nice shots of characters from the updated benchmark and instead greeted with overwhelmingly 65 pages of nitpicking over MINOR MINUTE details that you have to HYPER ZOOM the camera in to even notice.

It's what's important to a lot of us. Not everyone derives enjoyment from games in the same way or from the same things. Respectfully, you'll have to come to terms with that.

[KitiaraIornsight]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Spm-1sMvlrE&t=27s

Here is the developers panel summary explaining the morphing process now being employed.

[Iscah]

Is this something you'd be willing to repost as a bug report, or do you mind if I use some of your assets to create a bug report? I use a very similar face and couldn't put my finger on what was wrong like you did.

I've posted a couple of bug reports tonight, please do chime in on them while they can be replied to.

[Cheapshot]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Spm-1sMvlrE&t=27s

Here is the developers panel summary explaining the morphing process now being employed.

Thanks for linking this. I had heard they were switching to using a universal base mesh and shapekeys but hadn't personally seen it. It's interesting to see the actual mesh lines. It kinda bothers me that they didn't include a CC overhaul with this switch. They could bypass a lot of this criticism by offering adjustment sliders which this method of doing things would allow. I get that they wanted to roll out the graphical update at the start of a new story, but it more and more feels like they aren't ready. Especially since a lot of updates to textures and dye channels are rolling out in parts over future patches. This feels like it might have been better as an 8.0 thing realistically.

[KitiaraIornsight]

Thanks for linking this. I had heard they were switching to using a universal base mesh and shapekeys but hadn't personally seen it. It's interesting to see the actual mesh lines. It kinda bothers me that they didn't include a CC overhaul with this switch. They could bypass a lot of this criticism by offering adjustment sliders which this method of doing things would allow. I get that they wanted to roll out the graphical update at the start of a new story, but it more and more feels like they aren't ready. Especially since a lot of updates to textures and dye channels are rolling out in parts over future patches. This feels like it might have been better as an 8.0 thing realistically.

you are welcome. But there definitely is a big misconception that the same base character models were being used. That's not the case. They may have retained older character models in older zones and for NPCs but for our characters, we have whole new models and the differences being noted are DEFINITELY a result of the single model morphed process being employed at this time.

Edit to add.... because of this change this does in fact mean more hairstyles and hats for Viera and Hrothgar characters because they all have the same head base model as the other characters, but no, people are gonna complain over my chin isn't exactly identical as it was in the old graphics.

[Doopliss]

Didn't realize you played Dawntrail early than everybody else to know that. Also guess you missed the media tour and didn't hear how everybody said its like 2months old and you can clearly see the updated lighting and textures...I suggest giving them a watch unless you don't want spoilers. Then in that case, don't speak on this unless you know what you're talking about.


Going to be blunt. Its because you want/ like the echo chamber going on there. Unlike americans/EU, the japanese are less likely to speak up and defend what they like when they see the majority being dissatisfied, there were a couple of comments saying they like the changes but they were quickly drowned out by just like NA, the same people posting. There are other factors too but basically just cultural differences in forum etiquette between JP and NA/EU. Over here we're not afraid to call you out more often like I'm doing now.
Overall. You just want a echo chamber its why you get annoyed.




Actually It does affect me because a lot of requests are things I like. You sound like a hypocrite with the "well got mine so screw you" because that can go both ways no? Everything else you said is subjective. Male au ra iris were always hard to see even in the 6.58 because their iris are really small. Not sure what you mean by au ra scuffed textures...they scales? Iris sizes changes significantly? hyperbole won't help you btw... lips are way more defined actually rather than looking like plastic gloss like in 6.58.
The rest you pointed out are obvious bugs so not sure why you included it other than to attempt to make the graphics update sound bad and fluff your post.

Overall go post on the JP forums if you don't want to be challenged.(Though other than a couple of posts to spread your feedback. I think its cringe to -keep- posting in a foreign forums and chat when you don't even speak their language and the only way to talk to them is through a translator. Its why when I posted there I didn't try to talk with people.)
Btw....posting in the JP won't make your feedback get heard anymore than posting in your native language. The JP players said multiple times the grass isn't greener on the other side and more than one person said JP players actually think SE listens to us more just like how we think SE listens to JP more.
Basically....Just because you don't get what you want doesn't mean SE isn't listening and posting in the JP forums won't increase your chances of getting what you want. If anything I bet your feedback won't even get forwarded to the DEV's since I'm told its very obvious when people use a translator for japanese and it makes it hard to read for native speakers.

lol man i'm not readin' a full post from plushy. that's great or i'm sorry for you or whatever this says.
go continue coping by stalking twitter posts or whatever it is you do. see ya

[Doopliss]

I apologize for this but curiosity got the best of me during lunch.

Didn't realize you played Dawntrail early than everybody else to know that. Also guess you missed the media tour and didn't hear how everybody said its like 2months old and you can clearly see the updated lighting and textures...I suggest giving them a watch unless you don't want spoilers. Then in that case, don't speak on this unless you know what you're talking about.

https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...ecd574ad0d397a
Or here, since it appears you struggle to read.

Going to be blunt. Its because you want/ like the echo chamber going on there. Unlike americans/EU, the japanese are less likely to speak up and defend what they like when they see the majority being dissatisfied, there were a couple of comments saying they like the changes but they were quickly drowned out by just like NA, the same people posting. There are other factors too but basically just cultural differences in forum etiquette between JP and NA/EU. Over here we're not afraid to call you out more often like I'm doing now.
Overall. You just want a echo chamber its why you get annoyed.

Your insecurity reeks. My post wasn't directed at you in particular but I see I hit such a nerve that your only way of coping now is to attempt to be a bad armchair psychologist toward people you lack better arguments for.

I post there because the moderators are present and it's more organized, and even then it's been a total of five posts; with the large ones being mainly posts about bugs or oversights I believe people missed, or going out of my way to actually defend the developers, lol. I had a couple of small replies to other ENG speakers.

Actually It does affect me because a lot of requests are things I like. You sound like a hypocrite with the "well got mine so screw you" because that can go both ways no? Everything else you said is subjective. Male au ra iris were always hard to see even in the 6.58 because their iris are really small. Not sure what you mean by au ra scuffed textures...they scales? Iris sizes changes significantly? hyperbole won't help you btw... lips are way more defined actually rather than looking like plastic gloss like in 6.58.
The rest you pointed out are obvious bugs so not sure why you included it other than to attempt to make the graphics update sound bad and fluff your post.

I see you don't know what the word hypocrite means.

Male Au Ra irises are not currently hard to see, and lip gloss being better has nothing to do with the actual model definition. That's a hyperbole, dude.

If you look at the numerous posts about Au Ra outside of your obsession with their baby-like enlarged pupils, you can see they still have artifacts around their leg scales, particularly Raen. Female Au Ra face type 1 and 4 still have awkward, ugly rounded-out edges that used to be pointed. Male Au Ra face type 4 has the same issues. Go compare the fem Au Ra face type 1 "small pupil" option's iris size in the benchmark to the live version.

You're free to open the benchmark at any time and look with your eyes.

Also, I bring up the bugs because having such a large amount of them three weeks before launch is absurd. The developers clearly haven't been given enough time and I'm worried about them. But you can continue pretending things are objectively better.

Overall go post on the JP forums if you don't want to be challenged.(Though other than a couple of posts to spread your feedback. I think its cringe to -keep- posting in a foreign forums and chat when you don't even speak their language and the only way to talk to them is through a translator. Its why when I posted there I didn't try to talk with people.)
Btw....posting in the JP won't make your feedback get heard anymore than posting in your native language. The JP players said multiple times the grass isn't greener on the other side and more than one person said JP players actually think SE listens to us more just like how we think SE listens to JP more.

That's cool, man. I thought it was pretty cringe of you to keep posting that large list of twitter screenshots on the JP thread without poster permission, and then proceed to get into a back-and-forth with someone there. I've left posts I've disagreed with alone there, personally.

Kind of hypocritical, yeah?

Basically....Just because you don't get what you want doesn't mean SE isn't listening and posting in the JP forums won't increase your chances of getting what you want. If anything I bet your feedback won't even get forwarded to the DEV's since I'm told its very obvious when people use a translator for japanese and it makes it hard to read for native speakers.

1 for 1 for "shit I made up and am stating like it's more of a fact". Anyway, I'm done with this thread 'cause I said everything I had to say for real, and I should take my own advice. Cope, seethe, etc. See ya.

[azaleai]

The characters look great, they still look like themselves with more details and to effectively play the game everyone is zoomed out to the max, so why are we getting this upset? I don't understand.

I do agree with you that some things people are posting about are very minor nit-picks, but I do also want to point out that the game has a lot of cutscenes that zoom in real close on your character's face... The benchmark included. So getting the faces right is kind of important.

But also, I'm going to have to disagree with you on the 'more detailed' part, at least in the case of my face.



I believe this was a screenshot I took in the 1.0 benchmark not 1.1 but the normal map hasn't changed so this screenshot works fine.

A normal map is the texture that tells the engine to pretend light is hitting a face from a specific angle, used to give the impression of more detailed geometry with less of the processing power a high poly model would require.

If you zoom into the upper left screenshot, you can see in the current graphics that the light and shadows on the brow give the impression of creases in the geometry for not just the fold of the eyelid, but also extending further beyond the inner corner of the eye, an additional crease above it, and a definitive line across the bridge of the nose with faint hints of the actual brow muscle extending upwards. I've outlined them in the lower left.

Meanwhile on the benchmark face in the top right, they've added (admittedly misaligned) normal definition to the lips and cupids bow, but utterly removed it from the creases of the brow aside from the fold of the eyelid. Again, I've outlined the normals detail below. Instead, they've given us an unblended tattoo-like "shadow" on the diffuse (colour) map.

This doesn't look "great". Perhaps to someone who doesn't work in 3D modelling it doesn't seem that bad, but it's certainly not more detailed. I really don't know how to explain that there's literally a huge chunk of baked normal map information completely missing any clearer, not without getting ahold of the literal maps themselves.

[Irishfae]

As a WHOLE all of the characters look better, more real and less anime cartoony as a whole.

Maybe to you, but you are entitled to your opinion, that doesn't make the opinion of those of us that do have issues any less valid.
And my character looks a whole lot more cartoony then she did pre-DT. She feels generic and the lines that gave her the specific look I like aren't there anymore. It is very disappointing.

But nitpicking the way the corners of a mouth slightly turn up or down or "oooh i found a slightly different zig instead of a zag on one scale" is just massively ridiculous.

Again, maybe you see it as such, but it changes the look and feel of the character. Especially for those of us who have played with the same one for years. That turn of the corner of the lip changes the character, it changes the look on a real person too.
This is a feedback thread; come in say you like it, but don't try to tell people they are being ridiculous because all the sudden their character has changed in a not 'good for them' way.

The characters look great, they still look like themselves with more details and to effectively play the game everyone is zoomed out to the max, so why are we getting this upset? I don't understand.

No, they don't, not to those of us who are taking our time to provide feedback - obviously if they looked like themselves and if we thought they looked great we wouldn't be providing that feedback, now would we?
And maybe you play with your camera that way all the time, that's cool, good for you; When I'm not in a dungeon or a raid, I have my camera nice and close and I'm sure many others play a similar way. I have gigs upon gigs of screenshots over 10 years (8 with my Au Ra) and now she is going to look like a sibling to my character instead of my character.
If you don't understand, that's fine, you don't have to, but don't come and start ridiculing those who have been taking the time and effort to put forth organized feedback.

In the end, it amounts to options. People like new, people like old. It would be lovely to have options for both. I'm sure there is a reason you chose the character options you did and reasons why you didn't choose others. What you find aesthetically pleasing may not be what others do. Plain and simple. And some of these reworked remodels are not as aesthetically pleasing to some of us as the originals were. You just have to accept some of us don't like the changes, and we have to accept that some do like the changes, but that doesn't stop us from providing that feedback they asked for.

[Print_Screen]

Can I submit a bug report for my character if I am unhappy with the new model (and have some side-by-sides to point to, not just a gut feeling)? Or is that only for obvious errors like mismatched textures, hair clipping etc?