Updated benchmark

[Turnintino]

Would there be any possibility at all of retaining the current graphics in some kind of legacy version of the game program that could be used instead of the updated version? Is it possible at a technical level, and would SE consider implementing it?

Mods are probably the only recourse, and it does seem likely to me that one (or several lol) will be made, at least to preserve the original models. There are already more faithful upscales for the soon-to-be-outdated textures out there, for everything from characters to gear to environments, so...

[SchwarzwaelderTorte]

Plushy: The game is safe you don't need to defend it anymore, there is no need to prove to everyone else that you are right and that they are wrong. You can leave this thread behind without any worry on your mind.

Iscah: You won't find what you're looking for on the official forums (due to ToS etc), but there's bound to be someone somewhere who's archiving the previous version of the game (I think some people still have data of 1.0 lying around, so I wouldn't be surprised if they archived this too). For example on Twitter I got a post recommended to me of someone who's working on such an archival project as a hobby (although it's not exactly what you're after).

[Loggos]

I know this is a innocent ask but you don't really understand just what you're asking for.
It's not as simple as flipping a switch and it's back to having your old graphics.
The graphics fundamentally changed at a system level.
SE didn't just update texture, they actually changed how a lot of things are handled and also deleted many things the old graphics used.
This will also triple the game size to hold all the bad textures, they would have to recreate the old lighting source and shadows to replicate the old graphics.
Without doing that you will notice even more pixilation than usual since the old lighting and shadows did a good job in hiding it.
You say you don't care but will once you actually see it yourself.
You can see it in blender If you're so inclined to see it in real time.
When SE updated the graphics they ACTUALLY updated it and not a simple just upscale texture and lighting then called it a day.
Also forgot to point out this will double their work because they would have to add new light sources and old light sources in every new dungeon they make and they would have to add old textures and good textures to every new outfit and raid boss or npc they create... again...doubling their work.

Basically...it's not happening...

You guys just have to accept this is happening.
SE isn't going to waste resources to recreate something like this, sounds harsh but it's true.

That dev time is better spent on making the game actually fun to play and not having another endwalker with nothing to do.

Ok.

Like seriously, your dedication is astounding. You are in no way threatened because as Schwarzwälder Torte said the graphical update will roll out and you'll get the things you'll like.
And good for you! But it would be awesome if you could extend just a little of that mindset to others because we know. We know the changes are going to come. We are - surprise surprise - not stupid. We are however affected because something that has accompanied us for *years*, something we paid lots of money for and that we have grown very attached to is irreversibly going to be patched out of the game.
Like yeah, some people will get sad about this. In the end this is a product and as paying customers we also have an interest to preserve the things we enjoy about it.

Hence we provide feedback.

The dev team then has to value the feedback of different customer groups with different interests and decide what they wanna do. If an optional roll out of the graphical update causes excessive costs for them then the update is safe because we know SE will prioritise what is economically viable.

So, if you think all of our talk is silly then you can just ignore this thread because you'll literally lose nothing.

But you come at this as if the discussion in here really vexes you on a deeply personal level.
I have no problem with you saying you think the update is fine. That is your feedback and you should give it. But you don't need to try to "convert" us at every turn. You won't change our mind (bc we know how much we love our chars), we won't change your mind. This has become clear at this point.
E.g., you say with conviction I *will* care about the textures once they are properly incorporated. I can tell you, I will not. I know myself better than you know me. Personally I do not care about the fidelity of textures the way I care about my character. That is my priority.
Other people's priorities are different and that is their own prerogative.

In the end we'd love to keep our old characters (without it coming at the cost of the new changes others might like) while providing feedback, you'll argue relentlessly that ~it's not possible~ and it'll go round and round and round like that.

But hey, keeps the thread relevant I guess.

[Sylpharia]

Personally I think this benchmark is quite the improvement

[MrMordio]

Is this something you'd be willing to repost as a bug report, or do you mind if I use some of your assets to create a bug report? I use a very similar face and couldn't put my finger on what was wrong like you did.

[Cerbolt]

((Cross posted with the Au Ra thread))

If this was posted already, apologies - I haven't come across it.
So, I'm still trying to make this work (still not happy, but trying) and came across horn 'issues'

1) For face 4, the horns now look even less like they are attached. (EW on left, New Bench on right)


1a) DT v11 with same angle as the EW one:


1b: Same angle as 1a, but with light setting two - the shadow is just... looks like her horns are burnt:


As you can see it was there in EW, but in DT it just looks even less like they are something that grew out of her head.

2) From the side. EW feels more blended and DT feels like it was just stuck on with the color and text vastly mis-matched. (Not saying EW was perfect, just saying it stood out less to me)


3) Xaela suffers from this as well, though far less obvious and very hard to see form the front side view:


4) Adding face 3 since their horns also sit on preexisting scales. Though they still look like they were an added afterthought, they don't have a really obvious ridge where they connect to her head.

Oh wow the floating horns are actually horrible. Hopefully they fix this quick.

[azaleai]

Honestly, I think if my issues with the normal maps on my face aren't magically fixed after the maintenance (and I'm not exactly hopeful), I'll be posting a bug report about it.

I feel like a good chunk of the discussion in here boils down to is; is there actually something you think is wrong with the new models/textures, wrong enough to make a properly formulated bug report for? Or is it simply an aesthetic choice you don't really agree with?

While I do really sympathise for people who feel as if the vibe of their face is just 'off', the unfortunate reality is that may well not have been the vibe the artist who sat down to remake the face felt it had - I like to believe the team did what they believed to be preserving the face's features as much as they could, but everyone's interpretation of the features is going to be different. I think I'll be keeping that in mind while I get used to things like tweaked eye and lip shapes.

If you do want to make a bug report, make sure you follow the format, keep it clear and concise and make sure it's actionable feedback. They can't fix it if they don't know what's wrong.

[faiarrow]

Honestly, I think if my issues with the normal maps on my face aren't magically fixed after the maintenance (and I'm not exactly hopeful), I'll be posting a bug report about it.

My three reports on JP side (including the normal map issues on face 2 femroe - the nose mark flat diffuse being too light in new engine - the issue with the black pupils on femroe while m!roe face 2 got to keep their coloured ones) all got filed to Not A Bug, despite the normal map issue clearly being... a problem given the baked in flat diffuse for the brow keeps the shadow made for that normal map, and the loss of racial specific traits.

Whether that means they're just now aware of it and might adjust it we don't know, given the Lalafell Dolphin Teeth got filed to Not A Bug as well and it was something they actually fixed, or if they have decided this is where the design is meant to be (given the countdown art of face 2 with black pupils and missing the brow lines despite the vertical brows only on that face type...) I don't know.

I've got my fantasia ready either way and will have to say goodbye to my character of 9+ years if they're not adjusted. I can live OK without the coloured pupils even if I hate them, but the racial traits being toned down or removed outright is inexcusable (to me - I stress it's inexcusable to me/in my eyes; if it's the direction they want to do going forward then that's just what it is, it just means I'll no longer play any of my femroes since they're all hellsguard.)

[Doopliss]

I've generally tried to stop posting on the ENG side of this topic because I get much more curt and frustrated than on the JP thread.

Still, like in the JP thread, I implore people who are unsatisfied with the changes to continue sharing their concerns and urging the dev team for more transparent communication, even once 7.0 arrives.

The updated Benchmark was a good start, but does nobody else find it actually insane and telling that major lighting changes were done within a month--not just for characters, but for the whole game? The gameplay trailer even uses the old lighting and it shows! It looks bad! This stuff clearly isn't fully baked!

Also, I'm gonna sound like an asshole, but it's so tiring seeing people come into this thread and claim those who want the development team to live up to their promise of "keeping character impressions the same" are taking it too literally and are stating subjective opinions as fact, then in the same breath will decide their own equally subjective opinion is the actual fact.

I suggest anyone trying to share their concerns and desire for SE to live up to their promises to just stop bothering with those guys. Some okay with the benchmark are clearly hypocritically scared about losing something too, but in the end, for them it's just, "well I got mine so screw you," lol.




These don't seem very subjective to me. Especially the last line people like to ignore.

It astounds me people would be against adjustments, anyway? If you care so little about the changes in the first place, adjustments likely won't have an effect on you.

Besides, much of the update objectively seems bad. The lighting is better, some normal maps improved significantly, and now I guess when you zoom in you can see the wrinkles on your forehead, because that matters(?)

But at the same time so many color options are broken for skin and hair. Iris sizes have changed significantly at random along with some colors displaying way too brightly (fem Viera, for example). And why are so many noses now bulbous at the bottom when they were smooth slopes before? Why do upturned eyes barely exist as an option now? Several faces have bumpy, uneven geometry now, too. Lip shapes are still less defined and mostly worse across the board.

There's missing clan features for several different races. Au Ra still have scuffed textures. Actually, there's random texture and lighting errors everywhere. Roegadyn women are outright missing normal maps and have an intense darkness added to their eyes, and so do Au Ra men. You can still barely make out male Au Ra iris color if you choose limbal rings. My fem Highlander has gloss thrown in her eyeliner and hair that causes her to look permanently wet, making it feel like they didn't have time to check those features' contrast with the darkest skin tones.

The tips of some tails have been cut off. Lalafell are missing bellybuttons. Holes in hairstyles that weren't present before. The list goes on.

It's honestly incredible how more detailed textures and some more intense lighting can trick the brain into thinking something so obviously unfinished looks better.

[Irishfae]

Oh wow the floating horns are actually horrible. Hopefully they fix this quick.

It made it to 'accepted bugs' hopefully it continues on to 'confirmed and planning to address'