Updated benchmark

[Odstarva]

Everyone is so excited about the upgrade characters we are getting across the board, just talking to anyone in-game. Everyone I know feels that way, but I visit the forums and it's like I am in a parallel universe!
I'd really hate if they went back on the Elezen changes, I genuinely hope the dev team won't go back on this.

I empathize with folks feeling betrayed with the character changes, I really do, but some of us have been waiting for something like this forever... Don't take it away from us!

[Cheapshot]

Everyone is so excited about the upgrade characters we are getting across the board, just talking to anyone in-game. Everyone I know feels that way, but I visit the forums and it's like I am in a parallel universe!
I'd really hate if they went back on the Elezen changes, I genuinely hope the dev team won't go back on this.

I empathize with folks feeling betrayed with the character changes, I really do, but some of us have been waiting for something like this forever... Don't take it away from us!

I would be right there with you if they were adding options to the character creator, but they aren’t. They’re replacing options. People being happy to get new features shouldn’t come at the expense of those who have spent years growing attached to what’s already there. I’d like to see them more faithfully replicate the original looks for now, and then start working on expanding the CC so that we can both be happy.

[SchwarzwaelderTorte]

I empathize with folks feeling betrayed with the character changes, I really do, but some of us have been waiting for something like this forever... Don't take it away from us!

(I don't know how to not make this accidentally sound hostile... Please read this in the most literal way possible)

Out of genuine curiosity, when you mean "something like this" what exactly are you refering to?
What was it that bothered you in the character creator before that you've been waiting forever for the devs to improve?
When you first heard of the graphical update, what were your expectations?
How were those expectations fulfilled in the benchmark?

It would be great and really helpful if more people could explain in detail why they are satisfied with the changes. "I like it", "I'm excited", "It's so much better" is not really telling us and/or the devs what it is that went in the right direction with this graphical update.
Especially if you're afraid of some things being reverted, it's important to communicate what you would like to keep, I think.

Otherwise it's really just creating a "they love it vs they hate it" situation where we might not even be talking about the same details.

[Odstarva]

(I don't know how to not make this accidentally sound hostile... Please read this in the most literal way possible)

Out of genuine curiosity, when you mean "something like this" what exactly are you refering to?
What was it that bothered you in the character creator before that you've been waiting forever for the devs to improve?
When you first heard of the graphical update, what were your expectations?
How were those expectations fulfilled in the benchmark?

It would be great and really helpful if more people could explain in detail why they are satisfied with the changes. "I like it", "I'm excited", "It's so much better" is not really telling us and/or the devs what it is that went in the right direction with this graphical update.
Especially if you're afraid of some things being reverted, it's important to communicate what you would like to keep, I think.

Otherwise it's really just creating a "they love it vs they hate it" situation where we might not even be talking about the same details.

Well, I don't have an art degree. As a practical example, if you gave me two different dishes of food and I said I prefer one over the other, do I need to be able to tell in what exact way I liked it better for it to be true? I might not understand what seasoning you used or how you cooked it - some things you just like innately, and I could try to go out of my way to explain it and do a poor job of it.


But since you asked, and I am assuming these are good faith questions, I'll try to regardless:

1 - By something like this, I mean a graphical update, new shading, textures, models, etc.
2 - Nothing bothered me, but by the same token I was unsatisfied. Especially when it comes to the way the shadows affect the face and how it looks, how the light reflected poorly in certain cases, on how darker-skinned characters didn't have a skin that looked as natural in certain lighting environments (especially in darker areas).
3 - I didn't first hear of it until they actually showcased it, so I guess I didn't have any expectations. I was positively surprised when I saw it!
4 - See 3. But yes, very satisfied, it looked better in-game (creator and benchmark) than I expected (I especially love how the light shines through the ears and their new textures, and how they softened a lot of the more "jagged" facial features (which really just screamed low poly)).


Again, I'm no 3d artist.
I like the changes across the board. Every character looks a bit different, but then so do people's faces in the real world as they grow and age and so for me that really isn't a huge deal. I empathize with people who do, I just happen to disagree with them on what's important.

I'll take slight changes to my character over time if it means an improved experience, over it staying the same for the sake of comfort.


Lastly, I wouldn't mind at all if they added the new models as just separate choices and allowed people to stick to the old ones if they prefer. That would satisfy both camps, and I'd support that far and above the idea of them going back altogether.

[Iscah]

2 - Nothing bothered me, but by the same token I was unsatisfied. Especially when it comes to the way the shadows affect the face and how it looks, how the light reflected poorly in certain cases, on how darker-skinned characters didn't have a skin that looked as natural in certain lighting environments (especially in darker areas).

The thing is, all of that could have been addressed without altering the shape of the character models. Those things being addressed are not the things that people are complaining against.

Fixing the lighting does not call for lips and noses and eye shapes to be completely changed.

[SchwarzwaelderTorte]

Well, I don't have an art degree. As a practical example, if you gave me two different dishes of food and I said I prefer one over the other, do I need to be able to tell in what exact way I liked it better for it to be true? I might not understand what seasoning you used or how you cooked it - some things you just like innately, and I could try to go out of my way to explain it and do a poor job of it.

Just to reassure you on that front, you don't need to be an expert on the topic to be able to provide helpful feedback. To follow your food analogy, even if you might not be able to tell exactly what the difference is between the two dishes, maybe you would still be able to convey what makes you prefer one over the other (it's sweeter, it's more flavorful, it has a more interesting texture, it's more colorful, etc).
Even if it's not accurate, it's always good input. I'd actually go so far as to say that feedback from people who do not know anything about the inner workings of the work is the most helpful, because it helps the creator of the work see from a completely external point of view what the impression is.

(As an example, I've shared screenshots of 6.58 and the first benchmark to a friend who doesn't play FFXIV but knows about 3D modeling, and I asked him which one he thought was the "newer, improved" version. He wasn't really sure, but picked 6.58 in the end. This says a lot about the lighting problem that was in the first benchmark.)

It might be harder to understand what exactly makes the person feel that way, but that's something for the creator to figure out, by asking more in-depth questions to the person who gave feedback, preferably. (That's also why I phrased my questions the way I did, to try to get the information I'm looking for out of your impression)

So for example, the feedback I'm getting from you is: you had issues with the lighting until now and how shadows could make the face look unflattering, how dark skin is poorly lit, and how some facial features looked too low poly, and you're happy that this has been improved upon with the graphical update. And you're pleasantly surprised about the translucency of Elezen ears.

Yeah! Me too! I'm happy about that! (I think dark skin could still use a little bit more love though, but we'll see once we get to experience different environments)
I have problems with other things though!

Like Iscah is saying, your feedback does not directly contradict the feedback other people have been providing.
You could smoothen the jagged edges without changing the overall line (it's really just a matter of adding more definition, like using more points to draw the same curve, if that makes more sense).


(and again, to make it clear, I'm not trying to argue against you about anything, I'm only using your comment as an opportunity to make a broader point. So this is not directly targeted towards you, there's no hostility or anything, I just want people to realize this is more nuanced than "I hate it/I love it")

[SchwarzwaelderTorte]

And on that note:

I've only realized this now, but it's going to be a lot more difficult to provide accurate feedback and bug reports after the release of 7.0.

For PC players you can still download the 6.0 benchmark (I used Internet Archive to find the link), but for console players there will be no way to make accurate comparisons (unless you recorded cutscenes before maintenance).

So before 7.0 starts, I suggest everyone to take screenshots of your characters in /gpose for future reference.

Here's a small guide that you can use to make comparative screenshots that should be as accurate as possible:

1. Using Duty Explorer, enter the dungeon "The Burn". Teleport to the final room. Do not move!
2. Enter /gpose.
3. In "General Settings" set the Camera Position to 200.
4. In "Character Display Settings" choose "Self only".
5. Turn off "Face Camera".
6. Use the emotes "/attention" and "/straightface" and pause the animation.
7. Zoom on your character and adjust the camera so the face is properly aligned.
8. Turn the camera horizontally to take a screenshot of the front view, side view, and 45 degrees view.

Before taking screenshots, it would be even better if you could temporarily change your hairstyle so it shows the whole face.

Example:

Video guide

(The reason I picked The Burn is because it has the most flattering lighting without needing to adjust too many things)

[Irishfae]

For PC players you can still download the 6.0 benchmark (I used Internet Archive to find the link), but for console players there will be no way to make accurate comparisons (unless you recorded cutscenes before maintenance).

I highly recommend doing this (if you can).

Go to an Inn and use the Unending Journey in there.
Pick your favourite cutscenes and record your character in the hair/outfit you like to get a feel of how the new model will look/feel like in them. (Maybe it won't be as bad as it seems like it is now)
You can also grab some scenes with lots of textures, lighting and characters to get a feel for all the new models.

For some ideas, so far I have: (Expansion/Quest Name/Cutscene number)
SB/Stormblood/4
EW/The Matyr/2
ARR/WP Hard/3
EW/In From the Cold/4 (some fun faces that our character wouldn't normally make)
ShB/Shadowbringers/4
ShB/Shadowbringers/1
EW/Endwalker/5
EW/Endwalker/4 (because I love the smirk)

As a side:
In addition to the Burn (which I love), some other good places are - Sea of Clouds on a clear day, The Dreamkeep in Il Mheg (If you haven't finished and the sky is still blue)

[Astronis]

And on that note:

I've only realized this now, but it's going to be a lot more difficult to provide accurate feedback and bug reports after the release of 7.0.

I don't see why that would be the case. If there are outstanding bugs in 7.0, you won't need anything from 6.0 to reference them, they would stand on their own, would they not? If something clips or has a hole in it or is overly pixelated or the hair stands very far off the head model etc., you wouldn't need earlier reference photos to point it out.

Though certainly take screenshots if you want to preserve a memory.

[Loggos]

And on that note:

I've only realized this now, but it's going to be a lot more difficult to provide accurate feedback and bug reports after the release of 7.0.

For PC players you can still download the 6.0 benchmark (I used Internet Archive to find the link), but for console players there will be no way to make accurate comparisons (unless you recorded cutscenes before maintenance).

So before 7.0 starts, I suggest everyone to take screenshots of your characters in /gpose for future reference.

Here's a small guide that you can use to make comparative screenshots that should be as accurate as possible:

1. Using Duty Explorer, enter the dungeon "The Burn". Teleport to the final room. Do not move!
2. Enter /gpose.
3. In "General Settings" set the Camera Position to 200.
4. In "Character Display Settings" choose "Self only".
5. Turn off "Face Camera".
6. Use the emotes "/attention" and "/straightface" and pause the animation.
7. Zoom on your character and adjust the camera so the face is properly aligned.
8. Turn the camera horizontally to take a screenshot of the front view, side view, and 45 degrees view.

Before taking screenshots, it would be even better if you could temporarily change your hairstyle so it shows the whole face.

Example:

Video guide

(The reason I picked The Burn is because it has the most flattering lighting without needing to adjust too many things)

Thank you so much for this!

I never even thought about using The Burn as a GPose location but it was perfect.

I was able to take lots of screenshots, so at least now I have a good reference library of my chars' old looks, even if the latter never come back in the official game.