Updated benchmark

[faiarrow]

Not to make you more sad but they never promised or said they would do future tweaks, only they would fix issues and make adjustments IF "necessary" in future patches. (...) At this point I think it's better to just either make a new character or just try to get use to your new look in-game where you can dress them up and see them in varied lighting.

I mean this as respectfully as I can given how angry I am, especially having seen your posts get torn apart on the Japanese side of the forums from you sharing a slew of SNS links of people happy with the changes without their permission in a feedback thread just because you're happy with the update, but you do not get to police any of us who are dissatisfied by saying something as bold as 'make a new character'.

Directly from Yoshida himself:

As always, we will remain open to feedback even after the updated benchmark update and Dawntrail have been released, and will also continue to address any issues or necessary adjustments in future patches!

(There is no "IF" in there. Direct quoting is your friend.)

This is the very same man who has told us between two PLLs and a Fanfest:




And in an interview with Real Sound just in March of this year:

「『FF14』ではフォトリアルを目指すのではなく、これまでプレイヤーのみなさんが『新生エオルゼア』から10年間、一緒に歩んできたキャラクターたちの印象が変わらないということを絶対的な前提にしながら、テクスチャの解像度を上げたり、マテリアルのシェーダーを更新したり、全体的な雰囲気としてのグラフィックスアップデートによって「自分のキャラクターが総合的にパワーアップした！」という印象をいかにして持ってもらうか、が大切です。」

"Rather than aiming for photorealism in FF14, the absolute goal is that the impression of player characters, whom many have walked with for the past 10 years since 'A Realm Reborn', will remain the same. By increasing the texture resolutions, updating material shaders, and updating the graphics to create an overall better atmosphere it is important that the players can get the impression that 'my character has been absolutely powered up!'"

We are allowed to be upset. We are allowed to be angry. More importantly, we are allowed to keep sharing feedback as it is what the development team wants.

Rock, hard place, I know, but they honestly could've avoided this if they've been way more upfront and transparent about the work done when making such sweeping statements to a playerbase who have characters they've played upwards of 14 years if they came over from 1.0. It was insulting to hear in the PLL the special attention paid to things like rock textures and placement of rocks when they know that there is a large number of the playerbase upset with the character side of the updates.

[azaleai]

It was insulting to hear in the PLL the special attention paid to things like rock textures and placement of rocks when they know that there is a large number of the playerbase upset with the character side of the updates.

I'm glad I'm not the only one. Something about them focusing on the detail in the rock textures that non-artists are probably going to think little more than "oh, cool" about when our faces have literally lost definition got me a little riled up, lol. The textures for the normal map and the diffuse don't even line up on the lips for crying out loud.

There have certainly been some posts in the various feedback threads for tiny differences that I'm fairly sure are simply artifacts of a different lighting system (the complaints surrounding the corners of the mouth are a common culprit) and yes some of them do seem rather... nit-picky. Aaaand then there's femroe face 2, which literally looks unfinished, even ignoring the colour change for the pupils and nose smudge.

But on top of that, people are finding that there's holes between the head and the hair or beards, weird reactions to lighting where beards and eyelashes change colour in shadow when they shouldn't, chunks of hair where the texture density is completely wrong, glaring texture seams for hrothgar, lalafells missing their belly buttons...

I adore this game, I really do. I have over 700 days of playtime racked up on my main, I appreciate the work that goes into it even if I don't agree with every decision... but the graphical update, without a doubt in my mind, is not live game ready. The character side of the graphical update feels incredibly rushed and poorly tested. We are essentially the testers right now, and these feedback forums are our only way of communicating with the devs - if they're even listening.

I'm not expecting them to fix this before the release in 16 days because that's unrealistic as hell (and the poor artists deserve a break), but the least they could do is make another announcement and clearly state which pieces of feedback they intend to address and when. Even if it's just "it'll be something like 7.2 before we can impliment all the fixes, but this is what we've heard needs changing". Because, right now? It feels like a countdown to doomsday where our characters just get deleted and replaced with some alpha build that got slapped together before a lunchbreak and forgotten about. It feels like they're saying "eh, this is close enough".

The most frustrating part to me is. If only I had access to the files for this face - the sculpt, the model, the textures, etc etc - I could fix it in less than a day. That's what makes this feel like a massive slap in the face, like there's a huge we-don't-care sign plastered all over it. This is not "altered as little as possible".

[Iscah]

Because, right now? It feels like a countdown to doomsday where our characters just get deleted and replaced

This is how I'm feeling about it. At best a couple of them are recognisably the same character but with unnecessary changes: the corner of the eye has moved, or makeup has been added to a character who did not and would not wear it.

At worst they feel like the wrong character, or they look ill or half-asleep or staring dreamily into space.

The devs have access to the original character models. Surely they can check back against those and see where they've gone wrong, instead of me staring at screenshots?

But then I also think there is an ongoing problem of interpretation of details of the original models, and I think the updaters have been interpreting certain things in the "wrong" way to how they actually look.

People have noted that some characters had a shadow under the lip interpreted as part of the lip, and I think they're getting the shapes of eyes wrong by adjusting the position of eyelashes.

[SchwarzwaelderTorte]

Because, right now? It feels like a countdown to doomsday where our characters just get deleted and replaced with some alpha build that got slapped together before a lunchbreak and forgotten about. It feels like they're saying "eh, this is close enough".

Seconding this, this is going to be super cliche, but instead of making me feel excited, the traditional daily artwork countdown makes me feel like I'm in Majora's Mask and I got no ocarina on me.

[Loggos]

Seconding this, this is going to be super cliche, but instead of making me feel excited, the traditional daily artwork countdown makes me feel like I'm in Majora's Mask and I got no ocarina on me.

My feelings exactly. : (
I know some people say "just change, you're too attached" but this is a story-driven game so it should not be surprising that some people actually build a, well, story around their characters and don't just treat them as virtual legs to traverse the game with.
There's this vibe that story-driven gaming or RPing is somehow less mature than technical fighting gameplay. If you care more about your char's story-driven experience than the fact that they are ostensibly just a means to do battle content with then your "gaming priorities are wrong".
I've had my OG char for such a long time and to add another cliche to this, she is my favourite character in here.
I like battle content but I want to experience it with my character in particular. For me challenge and story are equal components of what makes FF fun to me.
For others the balance may look different, nobody is wrong here, since it's about how you subjectively have fun as an individual. So I wished people who feel less attached to their chars could see that FF has many different aspects that different people focus on in terms of enjoying themselves.
For me the update's changes making my WoL look like a different char is a bit like your favourite character getting updated out of the game.

[Plushy]

I mean this as respectfully as I can given how angry I am, especially having seen your posts get torn apart on the Japanese side of the forums from you sharing a slew of SNS links of people happy with the changes without their permission in a feedback thread just because you're happy with the update, but you do not get to police any of us who are dissatisfied by saying something as bold as 'make a new character'.

"Get torn apart"? it was only a single person asking did I ask for permission? Not sure how that means getting "torn apart" ? weird but if that makes you feel better.
I don't think I need permission sharing public information and also someone even disagreed that I need permission and since my post is still up I'm going to assume the mods thought it was fine too so...*shrugs* oh well. Just like what that person said, that just depends on your own personal ethical standard which I doubt you share and you're only feeling this way because you don't like I shared so much positive feedback because it makes you think SE won't do anything now. Its pretty obvious as you and others acted the same way trying their hardest to dismiss it.
Also not sure how you think I'm policing, you might only think that because you're angry and just assuming me sharing positive feedback as an attack.
Should probably calm down and reread my posts. If I was policing I would be dismissing people complains when I'm not. If me saying "make a new character" or "get use to your new look" is policing then I don't know, those are your ONLY choices in this matter, there is nothing else you can do in that situation other than quitting the game.

This is the very same man who has told us between two PLLs and a Fanfest:




And in an interview with Real Sound just in March of this year:

those leave leeway of trying to leave characters the same but he never said they would look 1:1 the same. "Preserving the overall look" which they did, the characters still look the same. Minor or some changes is still possible but the base look will still look the same.
"overall appearance of the player character will be altered as little as possible" same deal, this hints some changes will happen but still keep the overall look which they did do. Au ra's still look like au ra's, viera's still look like viera's, miqo'tes still look like miqo'tes just as yoshi-p put it, powered up.

I never said you couldn't be upset so not sure why you're acting like I said you can't be. You're looking for things to be mad about just so you can yell, feel attacked and feel like a victim and say "You're policing me! we have a right to be angry" when I never said you couldn't be :T.....and I agree they should have been more transparent but I think they did try to change the characters little as possible and in their mind they probably did but the playerbase feels differently. The dev team probably didn't think so many players would care much about the nuances such as -slightly- bigger lips and among other things.

https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...ecd574ad0d397a
"As always, we will remain open to feedback even after the updated benchmark update and Dawntrail have been released, and will also continue to address any issues or necessary adjustments in future patches!"
You're right he didn't say "if" but this line suggests this is for bugs only, not changing characters due to feedback.
Its why they said "necessary adjustments" lots of things people are pointing out isn't really necessary since its a matter of preference.

"Even so, we imagine the subtle differences in nuance will inevitably cause some characters to look ever so slightly different compared to before. Should that be the case, a phial of Fantasia will be obtainable from a new quest that will be added with the release of Patch 7.0, which will allow you to fine-tune your character's appearance."
Just in case you missed this line, this suggests he realizes that there are some small changes compared to the 6.58 model. Which kinda defeats the purpose of clinging onto what he said in the past, he knows there is small changes so repeating bringing up the same argument of "he said they wouldn't change the characters" is moot now that he says this now.

I'm not expecting them to fix this before the release in 16 days because that's unrealistic as hell (and the poor artists deserve a break), but the least they could do is make another announcement and clearly state which pieces of feedback they intend to address and when. Even if it's just "it'll be something like 7.2 before we can impliment all the fixes, but this is what we've heard needs changing".

I'm going to be totally honest. I HIGHLY doubt they're going to change characters in the middle of the expansion. (This on top of there are lots of bugs and weighting issues they have to fix)
Everybody that liked the changes will be the in the same boat as you, people that have warmed up to their new characters will be upset and then on top of that, assuming they did make more changes. Its possible the changes they made won't even please you and others that wanted changes so now everybody is stuck with a character they're not happy with, everybody is upset.
They just can't make big changes at this stage as its too risky and just a overall bad move, the only thing they can do is add more character options in 8.0 or 9.0.

[Sui-Kune]

text

My dude, you need to learn a little empathy.

People are legit angry about the update not for the sake of it, not to be nitpicky, but because they're passionate and absolutely, truly love this game, and only want to see what's best for it. It's not okay that characters that people have had for upwards of 10-14 years have inexcusable mistakes (some of which are really trivial to fix, like the opacity of hellsguard pupils and nose smudge), which while many were addressed/improved with bench 1.1, there's still many, many more. I even saw a male au ri on the Japanese feedback thread, with a plump tail, have part of it cut off at the end, leaving a visible a cross section.

I know Faiarrow and have for over ten years. They have said to me, point-blank, that they'd even be willing to play through DT msq without fantaing to a femhroth (which is about the same as the death of their character, basically), if we had another check-in from the devs. Something saying they are still listening and working on things, and 'maybe expect something patch 7.x'. Some sort of transparency and timeline from the devs, rather than the sea of anxiety and uncertainty as to whether these changes will go unfixed because 'close enough'.

It's no different than the feedback players back in 1.0 gave when the game was crashing and burning. There were certainly strong words back then, because people LOVE THE GAME. Like I said, they only want to see what's best for it, and for the devs. That sort of passion doesn't come about out of a vacuum.

[Plushy]

My dude, you need to learn a little empathy.

People are legit angry about the update not for the sake of it, not to be nitpicky, but because they're passionate and absolutely, truly love this game, and only want to see what's best for it. It's not okay that characters that people have had for upwards of 10-14 years have inexcusable mistakes (some of which are really trivial to fix, like the opacity of hellsguard pupils and nose smudge), which while many were addressed/improved with bench 1.1, there's still many, many more. I even saw a male au ri on the Japanese feedback thread, with a plump tail, have part of it cut off at the end, leaving a visible a cross section.

I know Faiarrow and have for over ten years. They have said to me, point-blank, that they'd even be willing to play through DT msq without fantaing to a femhroth (which is about the same as the death of their character, basically), if we had another check-in from the devs. Something saying they are still listening and working on things, and 'maybe expect something patch 7.x'. Some sort of transparency and timeline from the devs, rather than the sea of anxiety and uncertainty as to whether these changes will go unfixed because 'close enough'.

It's no different than the feedback players back in 1.0 gave when the game was crashing and burning. There were certainly strong words back then, because people LOVE THE GAME. Like I said, they only want to see what's best for it, and for the devs. That sort of passion doesn't come about out of a vacuum.

I do have empathy and if I seem insensitive I apologize.
But as I said to another person. They just can not change characters in the middle of the expansion. It'll cause way more harm than good.
I already gave some examples but to repeat; people that like the changes would be in the same boat as all the people not happy, the people that warmed up to the changes and like it now will also be upset and the people that WANTED changes have a chance of STILL being upset because the changes SE did isn't how they wanted it or they changed things they actually liked then we'll be right back where we are, another example of the peoples that want change.

Person A: I don't like the lips and want the 6.58 version but I like the eyes so good job there
Person B: I don't like the eyes and want the 6.58 version but I like the lips so great job there
Person C: I like the new changes, please don't revert anything SE

Now who should SE listen to? if listen to A and B this is what would happen
Person A: Change the eyes back SE! I liked the new eyes!
Person B: Change the lips back SE! I liked the new lips!
Person C: Why did you change things SE! Change it back!

People will get upset wanting more changes. With that possibility in mind...(and you know it will happen).
Rather than asking for things to be changed. At this stage its better to ask for more options. SE is in a position where they split the player base on the new characters and changing anything at this stage is a terrible decision and no matter what, someone is going to be sad.
SE isn't going to do another overhaul of the characters after 1.1 still isn't enough for people.
Not to be rude but most (---->most meaning not everybody<----) people wanting things reverted won't fully be happy unless they just decide to not do the character update and even if that's not true. I think people need to accept even if they some how got characters to look 1:1 with everything the same model.
It STILL won't look like 6.58 because higher poly, better textures, better shadows, sub surface scattering and non hand drawn pupil highlights and lips, different lighting rendering and how it reflects off the eyes. Its just not possible, someone will not be happy.

I really do think most of you will get use to the changes personally once you're actually in-game and seeing your character in different lighting and glams rather than the benchmark, could still be wrong but for most people I think will get use to it.

It's no different than the feedback players back in 1.0 gave when the game was crashing and burning. There were certainly strong words back then, because people LOVE THE GAME. Like I said, they only want to see what's best for it, and for the devs. That sort of passion doesn't come about out of a vacuum.

Honestly this isn't even comparable to 1.0 because people actually like the updated characters. This will only make sense if everybody hated it and nothing is still being done.
I'm not going to list my links again because it makes people mad but yeah....not comparable, not by a long shot.

[Iscah]

Now who should SE listen to?

The people telling them how to achieve their previously stated aspiration of keeping the characters looking the same as they were before.

[GreenLeafy]

I was holding onto little hope to see my miqo'te's botched mouth to be fixed even with the second benchmark , but seeing them barely address most of the issues that weren't connected to the poor lighting in the first benchmark and how sloppy some other fixes are kinda cemented they don't care as much. Not even a mention in the LL either.
Its a pretty hard pill to swallow that I'm sacrificing my character's face that's been the same for 9 years , for the sake of supposed new animations that might be available for facial rigging with all these extra polygons wow !!! - and then see Wuk Lamat and other NPCs in the latest trailer use the exact same facial expressions and talking animations I've been looking at in cutscenes for almost a decade. Like lmao if you're forcing the plastic surgery on me at the very least make it worth it Idk.

Seconding this, this is going to be super cliche, but instead of making me feel excited, the traditional daily artwork countdown makes me feel like I'm in Majora's Mask and I got no ocarina on me.

This. I am dreading launch day...