Updated benchmark

[LlymlaenGreene]

Thank you, I'm trying to do what I can, so
I'll say right away, I admire you, probably under all your posts on the Japanese forum you have my likes. But I don't think I have the intelligence and imagination to write something like you.
And now for the points.
Does it really matter how I feel about new and old, say, ears? I am a simple person: I see the difference, I ask you to fix it. Even if the new ears seem cute to me or to someone. After all, the task is to get as close to the original as possible. And when they change the original work of the artist at their discretion * or is it really an optimization of the creation of graphics or the actions of artificial intelligence*, that is, the artists and the editor's own view of the current characters.

"It's different" doesn't really say much.

In my opinion, *this is different* more eloquent than any epithet that can be thought of. How was it influenced?The character has become a new one. I like the previous character, I don't like the new one. And this difference is caused by all these minor ones: slightly protruding ears and major ones: changing a smile to not a smile.

therefore, personal feelings play a secondary role here, in my opinion. They have a task to repeat the original. I provide feedback that they have changed some parts *all*, only the hair in this case has not changed its shape and looks like an improvement*. And they don't need to know how I feel, especially since it's a very abstract thing. Some people like lop-eared people, some don't. For example, they made my character more lop-eared, which was not the case in the original

And to be honest, I don't know what to say about the nose? He doesn't really change anything in terms of emotions, like a modified mouth. About the mouth, I can say that the character was happy, and now she looks sad or neutral. And what about the nose? He just changes his appearance. The nose has changed its appearance, gender, eyes, ears. All these little things add up to a picture, a picture of another character * my opinion*

About the background. In the benchmark and in the real game, the sun is located elsewhere in the gridanian forests. In Limsa, the sun is in a different place and in the original game it is also very low, and if you take screenshots when the sun is behind you, it will create glare on the screen. So gridania is the only suitable place for comparison. You can see by the shadows on the character that these are the same places where the sun is behind you, so that it does not shine in your face and does not interfere with comparison.

Yes, I know idle animation, so today I took hundreds of screenshots to be 1 in 1, literally pixel to pixel, and I believe that the developers will not fix anything from this and will ,because so many things they need to fix. So I'll just ask, like many Japanese players, demand to give us our old characters, add options, yes, even excuse me, I I'm going to ask them to *leak* the original textures so that the modders do what the developers are not able to do. As for textures, of course I exaggerate and joke, intellectual property, that's it. But I actually have more hope for modders now. Because in such a short time, the maximum that the developers will do is to redraw a few things.

After all, all the parts have changed, it's a graphical update.

an interesting screenshot was posted on a Japanese forum. In another game, in collaboration, this miqote looks more similar than in the current benchmark of the original game

Well done, that post is exactly the sort of thing the devs can use to make changes. The response above mine had some excellent suggestions, especially taking pictures at the same angle and in the same lighting. I recommend taking them into account and posting a translated version of that in the JP thread as well with a bullet point list of each item that is wrong and how you would like to see it changed.

yes, these are useful tips, I follow them and thank you for adequate communication :3
how do I want to change these details? I just want the original and the new stuff separately. New eyelashes for you, an old nose for me, and so on

I know the words from a 3rd person won't mean much, but I really think that your character looks really good in it's updated, non-edited form.
I don't usually comment on peoples updated characters because I know it's not my opinion that matters, I just really think that she looks really good.
And I do hope that whatever happens, more changed being done or not, that you'll one way or another will be happy with the character that you'll play.

And I don't wanna sound smug or anything, but I think you accidently made a double post.
I tried looking for anything that differentiate them but couldn't find any.

to be honest, at the very beginning I didn't really like being told that my character was cuter now. Now I'm positive about it.
I see that you are saying this out of concern, not to offend. Everyone has their own opinion and it's not for me to forbid sharing it with us :3 . If you're interested, I just showed a gif of hyur to my two friends today, to which one said they were great. Another said it was downgrade and disgusting.
Yes, thanks for pointing it out, I edited the post and added the text about the smile, but I did it in advanced mode, and for some reason it went as a new post.
I'm really trying to get used to it, but somehow it seems to me that I just won't play if they leave everything as it is. I'll just replay msq again, and I'll stand afk forever. Or I'll wait for some hero to create a texture mod with our current characters. I find it quite funny that the actions of the developers force me to look towards mods.


what did the developers promise? this picture is really something that I would be happy about. Just hi res with shaders and not a single modified texture. Oh, dreams. :3



what I got.



Well, answer yourself a question. Do we, the users, need this optimization, or whatever they call it, if it does not cope with the most important, first and main task: not to change our characters. Personally, I don't need these new graphics methods at this price. * selfish, I agree* but. the other side of coin that the developers will work less, which is a definite plus for them. If only the quality did not become so mediocre, as the benchmark proves.

to be honest, I really want to do good for the developers * no matter how I criticize them.* Therefore, I apologize for maybe such unflattering words. and good for all users..

[Lupis]

Apologies, I haven't combed the thread to see if this has been reported, but- wow, Lalafell really got some CHANGES.

Here's the before and after of my lalafell. Some minor things were lost like his subtle freckles and skin variation, which is a shame but not too major; however, my major concern is the eyebrows and face paint distortion.

Original -> Updated Benchmark


These are both using eyebrow 5. The original had the most face paint distortion of all the eyebrows but, most importantly, the eyebrows themselves are thick, dark, and raised significantly above the face paint. Every single eyebrow option is visible above the facepaint, and they're positioned well above it with various thick options.

In the benchmark, every single eyebrow is set far below the border of the face paint and are significantly smaller and thinner, making them more or less invisible. This is a pretty huge change for the appearance of the character!

There's also The Distortion. It existed only in eyebrow 5 in the original game and notably the face paint doesn't distort at all while emoting. In the benchmark... (link leads to a 7 second video of a lalafell emoting)

https://x.com/i/status/1800963489927688243



This just cannot be intended. I know there's been a lot of concern raised about face paint, but I hadn't realized just how bad it is on lalafell, and how significantly their eyebrows had been changed. The massively thinned out, smaller brows look absolutely nothing like the previous options.

[antylamon]

That being said, I do think it's still worth mentioning that there remain some significant differences in her that don't stay true to her original design. The biggest issue is the size of the lips. Overall, the lips are still too big. The lower lip remains weirdly thickened, giving her mouth a distinctly different shape:

I use the same mouth type as your character and after comparing the changes with what we have at the moment, it looks like the shading under the lower lip that is present in the current game got incorporated/absorbed into that lip somehow as a part of it and made it bigger... It's so strange

[CantDecide]

Do people really want FFXIV to have a visual upgrade or do people want to keep the 10+years old graphics?

Maybe SE should've made a survey before they started working on it to see what people actually really want.

Do we, the users, need this optimization, or whatever they call it, if it does not cope with the most important, first and main task: not to change our characters. Personally, I don't need these new graphics methods at this price. * selfish, I agree* but. the other side of coin that the developers will work less, which is a definite plus for them. If only the quality did not become so mediocre, as the benchmark proves.

Honestly, I've had similar thoughts. I would be more than satisfied if the update just improved the textures and lighting, because frankly some things in the current game look really bad. The fuzzy armour, the cross-hatching on the hair strands, and certain environmental textures out in the game world especially. But I think my character's face looks objectively worse where she previously looked good, and barely better in areas that needed improvement (hair texture and disconnected lower lashes, for example). My character's eyes are similar to Llymlaen's and as her gif shows, even the texture on her iris looks worse because they've overcomplicated it and the catchlight isn't as striking.

I can't help but wonder if there's something going on behind the scenes hindering the devs' ability to do this well, because there are so many problems across all races that it begs the question if they're cutting corners and hoping we won't notice because it's being marketed as an upgrade and some things got better. The homogenization of certain assets in the old benchmark that made the clans unique would indicate this (viera pupils, keeper fangs).

At the end of the day, old graphical assets put together with care will look better than modern ones done poorly, at least in my opinion.

[CidHeiral]

how do I want to change these details? I just want the original and the new stuff separately. New eyelashes for you, an old nose for me, and so on

Unfortunately there is zero chance of that happening so you're going to have to provide feedback on how you would like the new models tweaked as best you can.

what did the developers promise? this picture is really something that I would be happy about. Just hi res with shaders and not a single modified texture. Oh, dreams. :3

The textures were updated in that image.

[LlymlaenGreene]

Honestly, I've had similar thoughts. I would be more than satisfied if the update just improved the textures and lighting, because frankly some things in the current game look really bad. The fuzzy armour, the cross-hatching on the hair strands, and certain environmental textures out in the game world especially. But I think my character's face looks objectively worse where she previously looked good, and barely better in areas that needed improvement (hair texture and disconnected lower lashes, for example). My character's eyes are similar to Llymlaen's and as her gif shows, even the texture on her iris looks worse because they've overcomplicated it and the catchlight isn't as striking.

I can't help but wonder if there's something going on behind the scenes hindering the devs' ability to do this well, because there are so many problems across all races that it begs the question if they're cutting corners and hoping we won't notice because it's being marketed as an upgrade and some things got better. The homogenization of certain assets in the old benchmark that made the clans unique would indicate this (viera pupils, keeper fangs).

At the end of the day, old graphical assets put together with care will look better than modern ones done poorly, at least in my opinion.

I completely agree with you. And judging by the reddit, users have accepted that *reddit users*. The Japanese are more persistent and almost through the message they ask to make a switcher between old and new faces. *what makes me happy, what if it's possible and they add this feature? :3

Unfortunately there is zero chance of that happening so you're going to have to provide feedback on how you would like the new models tweaked as best you can.



The textures were updated in that image.

Yeah, I'm just trying to be dreamy, hehe. You tell me that I say over and over again that my character is not the right one in the previous message, I agree with you and write it again. Yes, this is a very sensitive topic for me

I mean, in my opinion, it looks like what I wanted. The textures look very similar, I say not changed, the fact that the shape of the eyes is the same, the lips too, and in general the facial expression is like an UltraHD version of the same character

I use the same mouth type as your character and after comparing the changes with what we have at the moment, it looks like the shading under the lower lip that is present in the current game got incorporated/absorbed into that lip somehow as a part of it and made it bigger... It's so strange

It looks just like you say. It seems to me as if an automatic algorithm mistook this shadow for lips, and we got this result. And the developers just didn't check it. * this is a guess, but it really looks like an automation product, not like a manual job*. Because there is so much data to take into account and verify.

[CidHeiral]

I mean, in my opinion, it looks like what I wanted. The textures look very similar, I say not changed, the fact that the shape of the eyes is the same, the lips too, and in general the facial expression is like an UltraHD version of the same character

People say the same thing about your character, and someone who plays the catgirl in that other image would probably say they look totally different and you're crazy for thinking they look the same. That's why going through all this feedback is such a nightmare for the devs and why you need to be as specific as possible when providing it.

[Irishfae]

I use the same mouth type as your character and after comparing the changes with what we have at the moment, it looks like the shading under the lower lip that is present in the current game got incorporated/absorbed into that lip somehow as a part of it and made it bigger... It's so strange

They did something similar to 3 as well, maybe not as drastic as 2, but 3 is suffering as well. They also changed the curvature in the lower lip in both (maybe all?) which just confuses me since it changes the look and feel of the character so much.

[faiarrow]

I actually thought more people would be talking about it, but I guess not many people play as Femroes.

I have written three extensive pleas on the JP side of things regarding roegadyn, especially fem!roe skewed because yeah, they've butchered the faces. (Other JP players have also been doing the same - all noting 'we're the smallest played race but we're just as important' as well.)

Face 2 is missing an entire normal map (the crease for the eyebrow/nose bridge you pointed out) so the baked in flat diffuse shadow at the end of the eyebrow is now just awkward unblended contour, the nose mark/ash is nonexistent on hellsguards, the jewel eyes etc all nerfed.

The coloured pupils exist still on roe.... on male face 2 only. It was a standard for all f!roe faces and added a lot to their visual.

Trust me you're not alone, especially the 'we might as well be hyur' mood with the severe shaving of racial features.

[Zarkovitch]

We got buffs on fem highlanders, a slight nerf on mi qotes. Overall 9/10.