Updated benchmark

[Len_]

I posted my feedback for the previous benchmark here.

Compared to the first benchmark, the impression of the "round and cute" face I complained about last time appears much improved by the new rendering adjustments. The shadows and angles from before have returned. With that aspect, I'm happy.

However the eyes and mouth are still unacceptable to me. I'd like to draw your attention to the eyes in this gif I made that fades between 6.58 and Benchmark 1.1. I tried to align the whites of the eyes in both images to show the differences. If other areas seem to be shifting it's because of the subtle idle animation in the character creator.



When I open the character creator in the benchmark, my overwhelming impression can be summed up with this meme:

The eyes are too big and opened compared to how they were before. Perhaps it's too subtle to notice for someone else but, I have been familiar with this face since 2010 and have looked at it for 1000s of hours. The big eyes are the main thing I notice and I just can't stand it. The mouth is still awful too. In both cases, the changes are due to the model geometry and not some kind of lighting or rendering effect. If these aspects will not be corrected, I would like to be able to "give up hope as soon as possible" as another user put it. I remember during the 2.0 closed beta, the response to many complaints and criticisms being "Working as Intended." So, no need to hold back this time in letting us know.

I also humbly request for YoshiP to stop gaslighting the players by suggesting that we can "fine tune" changes we're not satisfied with in the character creator. Everyone who plays this game knows that is not possible. Unless there are some brand new features you're planning to unveil with the release of 7.0 that haven't been shared yet, to say otherwise is just a plain lie. As it stands, the choices players have if they're not satisfied with their new character graphics are as follows:

1) Deal with it.
2) Pick a different option. Your character will still look different but perhaps in a way that isn't as upsetting to you.
3) Make a new character entirely.

When I see YoshiP allude to some currently non-existent 4th option that will actually satisfy the players' complaints, it pisses me off. Players can't "fine tune" anything. The only ones who can are the developers (or modders). We're not stupid. If you expect the players to accept that you won't fix certain things then please convey that without saying absurd things like that the character creator is capable of "fine tuning."


I'd like to express my frustration in general so, if you don't care you can stop reading here.

I see a lot of people thanking the devs for their "hard work" and taking time out of their "busy schedule" to address this issue as if it's something trivial. I can't help but quesiton the sincerity of that sentiment. I certainly don't feel that way. From information that was shared to the players, it seems that the unifying of the facial model geometry was done to make the developers jobs easier when designing gear, making animations, etc. This is a technical detail that no player asked for. In the past the development team used to conduct player surveys. If there was one that asked "Would you accept your WoL looking weird and different if it made the developers' work easier?" I wonder how many would have replied Yes. I'm annoyed at how during each live letter update regarding the character graphics, YoshiP kept reiterating that the goal was to preserve the overall impression of the characters "as much as possible" and seemed aware of how important this aspect is to the game and to many players who are very attached to their characters. It seems this directive was not passed down to the people actually doing the work. Looking through everyone's feedback posts, some of the differences players have shared are so blatant and obvious that anyone with eyes, let alone a professional artist and character designer can see that certain important details and the overall impressions are completely different. I don't accept that these changes are inevitable and unfixable just because the models went from low to high poly. We live in a world with 3D fighting games flawlessly emulating the style of 2D animation in high definition. This graphic update is simple in comparison. It's a matter of the amount of care and attention to detail the developers put in. It leads me to believe that most of the work may have been done by AI or some other automated process to save money. And then you just released it like that hoping not many people would complain. It's what I would expect of a soulless corporation like Square Enix. But hey, since I'm paying to be able to post on this forum I might as well vent my feelings anyway. Rather than thank the developers, I'd like to commend all the players who I feel put more personal effort into their feedback than I suspect was put into the character updates in the first place.

[LlymlaenGreene]

and it looks like they've already gotten away with it and we won't see any drastic changes. Of course, I will try to do the work for them * I mean, I will point out that the eyes are different now, the mouth and so on, but I still think that users should not do it for them. They have original characters and new ones, but they just decide to change the details for no reason. A vivid example of this is the pupil size of different Viera clans. Initially, they were of different sizes, but the developers just took and made them the same size* but they don't do the work based on reviews


using the example of my character, I believe that from a contented, slightly smiling and confident heroine, she turned into a scared girl.


Why am I writing that they won't change anything? Because yesterday I did something stupid and asked for support from the reddit community. What a stupid thing that was. I gave them photos as an example, where it is visible to the naked eye, * I am silent about such details as different mouths, eye shape and so on* that the general appearance of the character looks different and I urge the community to pay attention to hyur's problems, all very politely and with words of love. And what do you think? No one agreed, lol, moreover, some even scoffed, while others just say, go into another character. I think Yoshi and his game still have appeal for me, but this cult of the perfect leader and the perfect game discourages me. And I only slightly criticized the current state on reddit, but they just subsequently deleted my post and banned my account. For me, the ff14 reddit community just doesn't exist anymore. I will speak very sharply, but it seems that even if the developers spit in the face of those people, they will say that everything is fine and it tastes like fresh dew. I'm sorry if it sounds so categorical.

you can read those comments yourself. A parallel reality.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...s_please_make/


of course, there is a small hope that they will still listen to the Japanese forum, but even there it is clearly visible, things are right where they started. Developers are presented with dozens of screenshots that, for example, eyes of a different shape. The benchmark is coming out, Chief Yoshi says that we listened to you. And what do we see? The eyes are the same shape. I don't know what they listened to for a month and a half. Added lighting, yes. *of course, there are fixes, such as male elezens have become angular again, and that's cool. But I can't say that about huur female midlander/* Well, how about a slightly smiling mouth. Now the mouth is smiling slightly in reverse. I don't think it's worth explaining how the appearance of a face changes when a character smiles and when not? In my example hyur, they simply repainted the eyelashes lol, although there were posts on the Japanese forum about a different type of eyes on this character.

https://imgsli.com/MjY5OTA1/0/2
here you can see what they have fixed. This is not my character, I took it from a nearby topic. They changed the eyelashes, and that's it. And the fact that the slight smile has disappeared? And who cares. Use flexible customization with Fantasia *Flexible - only 5 mouths that don't match what you need*


for me this is huge difference! these dimples on the tips of the lips literally make a smile a reverse smile

[CantDecide]

I did something stupid and asked for support from the reddit community. What a stupid thing that was. I gave them photos as an example, where it is visible to the naked eye, * I am silent about such details as different mouths, eye shape and so on* that the general appearance of the character looks different and I urge the community to pay attention to hyur's problems, all very politely and with words of love. And what do you think? No one agreed, lol, moreover, some even scoffed, while others just say, go into another character.

Reddit may not appreciate your efforts but I—and surely others—do. Thank you for your service to middie gang!

[CidHeiral]

Because yesterday I did something stupid and asked for support from the reddit community. What a stupid thing that was. I gave them photos as an example, where it is visible to the naked eye, * I am silent about such details as different mouths, eye shape and so on* that the general appearance of the character looks different and I urge the community to pay attention to hyur's problems, all very politely and with words of love. And what do you think? No one agreed, lol, moreover, some even scoffed, while others just say, go into another character. I think Yoshi and his game still have appeal for me, but this cult of the perfect leader and the perfect game discourages me. And I only slightly criticized the current state on reddit, but they just subsequently deleted my post and banned my account. For me, the ff14 reddit community just doesn't exist anymore. I will speak very sharply, but it seems that even if the developers spit in the face of those people, they will say that everything is fine and it tastes like fresh dew. I'm sorry if it sounds so categorical.

you can read those comments yourself. A parallel reality.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...s_please_make/

The comments in that thread are one guy suggesting you use the official forums for your feedback, one guy suggesting you add more detailed information about what you feel is wrong, and everyone else calmly saying they don't see much of a difference which isn't any different than what a lot of people have been telling you here. To call all those people "cultists" just because they didn't all agree with you is pretty ridiculous.

[Evergrey]

The comments in that thread are one guy suggesting you use the official forums for your feedback, one guy suggesting you add more detailed information about what you feel is wrong, and everyone else calmly saying they don't see much of a difference which isn't any different than what a lot of people have been telling you here. To call all those people "cultists" just because they didn't all agree with you is pretty ridiculous.

Welcome to the internet.
Where everyone's opinion is wrong unless it's what I'm looking for.

[LlymlaenGreene]

The comments in that thread are one guy suggesting you use the official forums for your feedback, one guy suggesting you add more detailed information about what you feel is wrong, and everyone else calmly saying they don't see much of a difference which isn't any different than what a lot of people have been telling you here. To call all those people "cultists" just because they didn't all agree with you is pretty ridiculous.

Thank you, I wish you only the best, I do not hate you, we disliked each other from the very beginning, but nevertheless, I am of the opinion that reddit, as they said here on the forum. toxic echo chamber. They don't like any criticism when the first benchmark came out, even here on the forum there was a topic why ff14 reddit likes the new look, but on the forum they only complain, and it's all about the lighting. And it turns out that when Yoshi issued an appeal for a new benchmark, it turns out that reddit agrees that they have changed not only the lighting. Where the wind blows, so do they, the user.

They may disagree, as I do with them * by the way, you have successfully kept silent about those who say that for them it is absolutely the same picture, or a tip to hire a personal and graphic designer and an artist to draw me a character? Although if you look closely for more than three seconds, you can see that, the most banal thing is that she does not have a smile and has bags under her eyes, which makes her tired. Do I need to explain to you the difference between a smiling person who has had enough sleep, between a person who does not smile and has bags under his eyes? And that even if they see small changes, it doesn't mean anything to them. Well, that's a big difference for me.*,
but they literally hate that someone disagrees with them. For them updating is the maximum and exact improvement to such an extent that they literally ban me and delete my objectionable post. A public spanking, nothing to say.
That is, it makes no difference to them whether there are dissatisfied or not. The most they highlight of the problems is mikote's fangs or elezen's smile. The community is as tolerant as possible, and there can be no objective criticism there. Well, or when their favorite streamer says that there are problems with the content, then yes, the crowd will pick it up and make post after post about it.
if you think that I personally say that everyone there is not like that, then no, the people there are wonderful, but the community itself... a herd instinct when it comes to something not so positive. For reference, I've been reading reddit since I started playing this game. In general, yes, it is not intended for criticism, but I thought that it was possible to make public something, but as you can see, I can only get banned for an objectionable opinion and request

so let's not discuss this any further, I'll just stand by my opinion about reddit.


It's no different for you. For many hyurs, including me, it is different. * I can also say that I don't see any difference with the fact that you want to get your eyebrows back, and I can tell you that, for me, this is an insignificant difference, so I don't care what you want to get back.* But I do not do this and respect any opinion, since it is not for me to play your character, but you will play this character. I never give a damn about other people's opinions and beliefs.* But I still think that the original look, which the developers promised us, is a priority. If you want to add new noses, add them, but do not replace the current ones.* It's funny that those who disagree with graphic updates, for the most part, say to return the original look, and add new looks as an option. As for whether this is feasible or not, I do not know. But the behavior is quite loyal.
And those who are happy, I often see it, they just say, accept it. This is not possible with such a graphical update. Or that they have implemented some new algorithms. Which is pretty selfish. It's nice to be in the majority and raise your voice, knowing that they will stand up for you, haha.
If their artists * or artificial intelligence* are not able to copy characters and add polygons without changing the concept, then maybe they should hire new designers, who will be able to accomplish this *feat*? * no offense, it looks beautiful, but different *.

And you, in your message, even here you unequivocally hint that * even here most people say that the difference is small * literally, I just need to close my mouth and drink or eat what I was given. I'm sorry, but I figure it out when diluted powdered milk was poured into my glass instead of milk.

Reddit may not appreciate your efforts but I—and surely others—do. Thank you for your service to middie gang!

I am very grateful to you and I am actually in the process of photoshopping about every changed detail in hyur's faces. I hope I can do it right, since I don't have any drawing skills, and it takes a very long time to circle each pixel, which I do, hehe. And I hope the developers will take this feedback into account if I manage to do everything right.

[CidHeiral]

we disliked each other from the very beginning

Wut? I think I've interacted with you like one other time ever and I don't even remember what it was about lol.

And that even if they see small changes, it doesn't mean anything to them. Well, that's a big difference for me.*

You are entitled to have whatever opinion you want about your character. My point was that you shouldn't make rude comments about an entire group of people just because they don't agree with your opinion.

but they literally hate that someone disagrees with them. For them updating is the maximum and exact improvement to such an extent that they literally ban me and delete my objectionable post.

I can't see your posts there because they were deleted but judging by your behavior here I would have to assume you had a meltdown about people not agreeing with you and you said some things unsavory enough to warrant a ban. If people were getting banned from the sub just for disagreeing with each other there wouldn't be anyone left.

[Evergrey]

I am very grateful to you and I am actually in the process of photoshopping about every changed detail in hyur's faces. I hope I can do it right, since I don't have any drawing skills, and it takes a very long time to circle each pixel, which I do, hehe. And I hope the developers will take this feedback into account if I manage to do everything right.

SE: There will be some changes with the faces. Please understand.
Community: I'm gonna point out every single change.

[noumen0nn]

SE: There will be some changes with the faces. Please understand.
Community: I'm gonna point out every single change.

is there a reason we shouldn't? if you don't like seeing our feedback maybe you shouldn't click on the thread that's explicitly about giving feedback.

[Evergrey]

is there a reason we shouldn't? if you don't like seeing our feedback maybe you shouldn't click on the thread that's explicitly about giving feedback.

I mean, when SE themselves have said that there will be some alterations with the update and yet people feel the need to point out every single one like it's not supposed to be there, isn't something wrong?
SE have said multiple times that there will be changes. Why can't people seem to understand that some changes has to be done?

Some changes are worse than others, sure.
But to point out every single tiny one, that's just obsession.
Do people really want FFXIV to have a visual upgrade or do people want to keep the 10+years old graphics?

Maybe SE should've made a survey before they started working on it to see what people actually really want.