Updated benchmark

[Len_]

The devs were clear the character models were being completely redone

This is actually the opposite of what was told during live letters. Unless there was some translation error, it was expressed that the changes we were seeing were not based on "totally redone" geometry and that was not what they were planning to do. It was showing the difference with texture and lighting updates. Not like I took those words at face value or believed they wouldn't mess this up somehow but, that is the fact of what they actually said. Unless there was some other LL I missed.

so why are we getting this upset? I don't understand.

Who is "we"? Clearly not you. Why do you care?

[Iscah]

This is actually the opposite of what was told during live letters. Unless there was some translation error, it was expressed that the changes we were seeing were not based on "totally redone" geometry and that was not what they were planning to do. It was showing the difference with texture and lighting updates.

Indeed. They even attributed some of the issues to "it was always there, you just couldn't see it in the lighting", implying that they can't have started from scratch, and yet so many things have been clearly altered if they really did start with the same models.

[KitiaraIornsight]

This is actually the opposite of what was told during live letters. Unless there was some translation error, it was expressed that the changes we were seeing were not based on "totally redone" geometry and that was not what they were planning to do. It was showing the difference with texture and lighting updates. Not like I took those words at face value or believed they wouldn't mess this up somehow but, that is the fact of what they actually said. Unless there was some other LL I missed.

Who is "we"? Clearly not you. Why do you care?

When the graphics update was first showcased and announced at the fan fest they explained every race had its own unique character model. With the graphics update, ALL character models were replaced with a single model that was "morphed" into each of the races as this reduces the number of assets required in the game, this accounts for the minor variations showcased in the shapes of faces, eyes, lips etc. They literally demonstrated their process at a fan fest when they very first showcased the graphics updated preview character models.

Why do I care, because there are litterally people threatening to quit over minute details. I care because I hopped in a post expecting to see all sorts of nice shots of characters from the updated benchmark and instead greeted with overwhelmingly 65 pages of nitpicking over MINOR MINUTE details that you have to HYPER ZOOM the camera in to even notice.

[howltia]

I definitely think the 2nd benchmark had some great improvements, and I do really appreciate all the work the devs have put in, but I just wanted to share my thoughts on the new one as a miqo'te face 4 enjoyer





Its improved in some ways, but is it just me that thinks they've dramatically reduced the differences for the miqo'te faces? she looked shiny and strange in the 1st benchmark but in the 2nd one she looks very similar to face 3? tbh they all seem more identical in shapes now, and her nose and lips are still so flat they've definitely reduced the larger flat nose i have here, which is a huge shame, but they did definitely improve the lip shape from the 1st benchmark, i'm just going to miss her open mouth im just sad about all the character changes to be honest, i spend a great deal of time looking at her face etc so its gonna be a difficult transition lol.

I know people think its silly to complain but when you have 2000 + hours with a character you love and then your favourite features of theirs are going to be removed or changed completely..it can be hard!

[Cheapshot]

is it just me that thinks they've dramatically reduced the differences for the miqo'te faces?

It's not just you. They've really homogenized a lot of the features across the board. Sometimes that happens when you increase polycount and don't do manual fine adjustment to the mesh with the original shapes as a guide afterwards. I don't know if that's what happened here, but at any rate, everything is much flatter and smoother and smaller and less defined. Unique characteristics have been lost. I really think they need to spend more time restoring the original features. Load in the original meshes as a transparent guide and try to match the profiles and lines better. Things like that missing lip gap have to return. They can't get this wrong. People still resent what happened with WoW.

Why do I care, because there are litterally people threatening to quit over minute details. I care because I hopped in a post expecting to see all sorts of nice shots of characters from the updated benchmark and instead greeted with overwhelmingly 65 pages of nitpicking over MINOR MINUTE details that you have to HYPER ZOOM the camera in to even notice.

It's what's important to a lot of us. Not everyone derives enjoyment from games in the same way or from the same things. Respectfully, you'll have to come to terms with that.

[KitiaraIornsight]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Spm-1sMvlrE&t=27s

Here is the developers panel summary explaining the morphing process now being employed.

[Cheapshot]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Spm-1sMvlrE&t=27s

Here is the developers panel summary explaining the morphing process now being employed.

Thanks for linking this. I had heard they were switching to using a universal base mesh and shapekeys but hadn't personally seen it. It's interesting to see the actual mesh lines. It kinda bothers me that they didn't include a CC overhaul with this switch. They could bypass a lot of this criticism by offering adjustment sliders which this method of doing things would allow. I get that they wanted to roll out the graphical update at the start of a new story, but it more and more feels like they aren't ready. Especially since a lot of updates to textures and dye channels are rolling out in parts over future patches. This feels like it might have been better as an 8.0 thing realistically.

[KitiaraIornsight]

Thanks for linking this. I had heard they were switching to using a universal base mesh and shapekeys but hadn't personally seen it. It's interesting to see the actual mesh lines. It kinda bothers me that they didn't include a CC overhaul with this switch. They could bypass a lot of this criticism by offering adjustment sliders which this method of doing things would allow. I get that they wanted to roll out the graphical update at the start of a new story, but it more and more feels like they aren't ready. Especially since a lot of updates to textures and dye channels are rolling out in parts over future patches. This feels like it might have been better as an 8.0 thing realistically.

you are welcome. But there definitely is a big misconception that the same base character models were being used. That's not the case. They may have retained older character models in older zones and for NPCs but for our characters, we have whole new models and the differences being noted are DEFINITELY a result of the single model morphed process being employed at this time.

Edit to add.... because of this change this does in fact mean more hairstyles and hats for Viera and Hrothgar characters because they all have the same head base model as the other characters, but no, people are gonna complain over my chin isn't exactly identical as it was in the old graphics.

[Cheapshot]

Edit to add.... because of this change this does in fact mean more hairstyles and hats for Viera and Hrothgar characters because they all have the same head base model as the other characters, but no, people are gonna complain over my chin isn't exactly identical as it was in the old graphics.

I actually don't think it necessarily means that? The hair and hats are still separate meshes that would all have to be adjusted to fit, just like before. They could maybe run a program to morph things but they're still gonna have to check each and every one and manually adjust just like before so no real change there. The heads are still roughly the same shape. Using a universal basemesh and shapekeys seems more of an effort to streamline new animation than for things like existing hats and hairs.

[azaleai]

I actually don't think it necessarily means that? The hair and hats are still separate meshes that would all have to be adjusted to fit, just like before. They could maybe run a program to morph things but they're still gonna have to check each and every one and manually adjust just like before so no real change there. The heads are still roughly the same shape. Using a universal basemesh and shapekeys seems more of an effort to streamline new animation than for things like existing hats and hairs.

Unless they're really streamlining/reworking the code surrounding the faces, I don't think they use the same base mesh and are shape-keyed to other faces in the game, but rather that's something they do when exporting the faces from their 3D modelling program to ensure the number of polys are uniform. It wouldn't make sense with how some races have human ears and some don't, wouldn't cover the horns or miqo/viera ears. And I don't really see them even unifying the mesh even between the same race unless they intend to give us all of the cusomisation options for each face on all of them, which... they haven't, as wonderful as that would be.

One thing along these lines they do appear to have done though, is while the faces models across the subraces were the same model (say Sea Wolves and Hellguard), the textures were different. That was how they got the Hellsguard to have the smudge, but the Sea Wolves didn't. Now, the smudge is actually a separate piece of the model that floats juuuust off of the nose like eyebrows and beards do, which is hidden on Sea Wolves and the textures appear to be completely shared.

They do some really neat things to lower file size! But unfortunately a unified head model isn't quite it.