Debuffs Need Multiple Categories

[Sjol]

One thing I feel is missing in terms of design space is the idea that buffs only have two categories, curable and incurable.

In various RPGs buffs usually come in multiple categories like disease, poison, curses, etc.

If debuffs has multiple categories, you could also create additional design space and give different jobs different cleanses.

BLM could have a remove curse.
MNK could self-cure poison.
WHM could AoE-heal diseases.

If you split the debuffs you widen the design space. Healers should still be the best at it with multi-cures and AoE type-specific cures, but it allows options in terms of what gets what. Also, if the cures are split that adds some additional thought to jobs with multiple cleanse types.

[Jeeqbit]

I see your point that they could have more categories, but they do have some and they have been previously used.

Curable/incurable = white line or no white line

Enhancements
Conditional Enhancements
Enfeeblements
Others

To show how this has been used in the game:

The Warden's Paean - Removes one select detrimental effect from self or target party member. If the target is not enfeebled, a barrier is created nullifying the target's next detrimental effect suffered.
Erase - Removes a single damage over time effect from target party member other than self.

Erase is similar to the "remove poison" idea, but was removed from the game due to lack of use (since casual players weren't gonna bother), while the Warden's Paean remains although is probably not used a lot either. It's the sort of thing a good player uses as skill expression but most average players just wouldn't be likely to touch.

So I think based on what they did with Erase, they could distinguish enough to make abilities remove specific types of debuffs. But whether SE will bother with something that the majority of this game's players don't end up using, I don't know.

I'd like it if they did bother. I used Erase all the time. I used all the role actions, and I noticed the rare players that also used things like this. But it was clearly the minority of players that were trying their best, and not the majority that barely knew what they were doing/returning to the game etc.

[Sjol]

I understand button bloat is a problem, but like BRD, it's optional. It's actually one of those nice QoL abilities. The healer can still do the removal, but if you decide you want to push yourself just a little bit you can weave them in, too. I've certain done it both on BRD and in other games.

The problem is SE seems to want to make content that REQUIRES every ability. That seems more like the core problem.

[Jeeqbit]

The problem is SE seems to want to make content that REQUIRES every ability. That seems more like the core problem.

Yes, I really don't like being forced to use tank limit break. However, I have found some really good moments to use it that didn't require it. Just got to be enormously experienced and quick to get it right. When you've seen how a wipe happens in content hundreds of times, then you just know the exact moment that a tank limit break can save it.

For example, I was in Innocence recently and they did the thing of ignoring the blue tether. They built up a few vuln stacks. This tends to result in a party wipe, despite killing the adds successfully. So I changed history by using tank LB3.

I like how it went in Byakko ex, where you could choose either to DPS LB3 or Tank LB3. I also think that in a fully MINE run of Garuda ex that if you kill spiny plume too early the backup option is a tank LB.

Another example of optional stuff is in Shadowbringers, the trash packs would cast damage buffs or other advantages or devastating raid-wides that made it harder for healers. A tank had to pick out the correct enemy from the 50 they had pulled and interrupt it. If they didn't, it was (and still is) harder for the healer. It's not impossible for the healer, but it will often be a wipe if the tank doesn't interrupt, especially if the tank is also not good with mit or sustain.

It's worth having these little things, even if most people don't use them, just so that you can feel like the game has a bit more depth.

[weebtext]

It's funny you mention AoE cures, because Scholar used to actually have an AoE Esuna back when Selene wasn't just a recolored Eos.
I still miss it.